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bfesser
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Methanol from Windshield Washer Fluid
Yesterday, I purchased 1 gal. "homelife® windshield wash all season formula -- protects to -20°F below zero" because it plainly states
on the label that it contains methanol and may cause blindness--<em>hooray</em>! I should have known not to expect much based on the
<em>negative</em> blahblah <em>below zero</em> part, but I went ahead and distilled about 400 mL of clear colorless liquid
from it. The distillate came over between 77°C and 82°C. So...ethanol, eh? Lying mother fuckers. Perhaps a it contains just a
trace of methanol to justify their blasphemy.
Before anyone complains--yes, I searched for an MSDS before distilling, but found none. And, yes, my thermometer was properly placed and is perfectly
accurate.
Perhaps we should have a (use this) thread to keep a record of which windshield washer fluids contain a reasonable amount of methanol, and which are
shit. Also, vent your anger about false advertising. 
<strong>homelife® all season -20°F formula
UPC 41163-24126
Don't bother--ethanol.</strong>
[Edited on 2/23/11 by bfesser]
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crazyboy
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It isn't false advertising, it contains methanol. The methanol isn't their as a selling point but as a warning to prevent the would be cheap drunk
from getting hammered off washer fluid. I use HEET gas-line antifreeze, it's 99% pure methanol with no troublesome additives.
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bfesser
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I wasn't really in need of the methanol at the moment, and would normally seek HEET if I needed it. I just purchased the bottle on a whim on my way
out of work, thinking it'd give me something to do during the snow storm. Still, solid advice. Thank you.
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Eclectic
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Also, unless you are using a fractionating column, the vapors are going to be coming out of the liquid at it's boiling point. Try redistillation.
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nervSreck
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Quote: Originally posted by crazyboy  | | It isn't false advertising, it contains methanol. The methanol isn't their as a selling point but as a warning to prevent the would be cheap drunk
from getting hammered off washer fluid. I use HEET gas-line antifreeze, it's 99% pure methanol with no troublesome additives.
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Hey what do got against cheap drunks? Just kidding. I could be wrong but methanol is just ethanol with poison added.They do this in order to avoid
paying liquor taxes.You wouldn't wanna buy a bottle of Kauffman Luxury Vintage vodka for antifreeze which can cost you over two hundred dollars a
bottle.(Well maybe once I get rich i'll do that after lighting a fine cuban with a stack of $100 bills?)
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UnintentionalChaos
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facepalm.jpg
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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quicksilver
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Heet's fairly expensive for the amount sold; no? IF one has access to a janitorial suppliers there is a product using 99%+ methanol for cleaning
boilers at 3-4 USD a gal.
It's to bad we don't have a "smiley" of that facepalm.jpg.
[Edited on 24-2-2011 by quicksilver]
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bfesser
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<img src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_DFnlKMSrl9E/TCU-sJ6p-gI/AAAAAAAAAtk/EDuY2V_G_eA/s1600/picard-no-facepalm.jpg" />
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Steve_hi
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Isn't Methanol wood alcohol. and why bother distilling it when you can have 99.9 pure at a Rona or Canadian tire store for 6$ a gallon?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol
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bbartlog
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Because you don't live in Canada? The big box hardware stores in the USA don't carry pure methanol AFAIK, unless you count HEET or similar.
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Intergalactic_Captain
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The closest you'll get to the canadian experience in the US is finding a store that carries Recochem products. OT, but if you want denatured alcohol
that isn't loaded with crap their version is ONLY methanol and ehtanol.... 8 years or so ago, during one of my less proud moments, I successfully
made "renatured" jello shots from a carefully distilled batch - I would NOT reommend doing this, but it didn't kill me and my eyesight isn't any worse
than it was... Again, NOT a good idea - God knows if the formula is still the same, but canadian regs on alcohol are much less stringent than the US.
...More on topic, the -20degF fluid is ~18% methanol tops. I tried this last year with -20, -30, and -35 rated fluids, after seeing a couple of cheap
jugs and getting curious as to their methanol contents. Most -30-35 rated fluids are, IIRC, are 30-40% methanol. Check the MSDS's though - With the
more expensive "fancier" fluids, propylene glycol and detergents are common additives - They won't mess up your distillation, but will throw off the
temperature based estimates of methanol content. As a simple rule, stick with the cheap blue stuff - If it's pink, there's something else in it - And
avoid Rain-X, although it's usually expensive enough as to rule it out as a methanol source.
When I did it, I did a simple density measurement to get a baseline - You can't always trust an MSDS. I have a 2-gallon heavy-duty gas can that I use
for bulk solvent distillation - 1.5 gallons of fluid in, collect .5-.75 gallons. Move to 1-gallon can, repeat. After 3-4 simple distillations,
depending on the source, methanol of ~90% puritty, the remainder water, is obtained in around ~60-70% yeild based on the source material. A slow and
inefficient process, but if you've no other option or have some time to kill, it is a viable source of cheap methanol - Provided you start with
-30degF rated or lower.
...Fractional distillation would be much better, but only if you do at least one simple distillation first - This will get you to 50-60% or so at
least, depending on how slow you go and where you call your cutoff point. A while ago I made a "quickj-fit" system for stuff like this (DCM in
particular, the goo...) - One gallon and one quart solvent cans use the same caps, and under the plastic child lock is usually a solid steel cap -
This, soldered to a copper liebig, makes a simple system that can use disposable distilling vessels - And, because it's soldered on, I can and do
frequently dismount it and move the condenser to paint-can and other various lids depending on what vessel it needs to fit.
If you see me running, try to keep up.
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bbartlog
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'the -20degF fluid is ~18% methanol tops.'
So, what accounts for the -20F freezing point, then? Looking at the data for freezing points of aqueous mixtures
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol_(data_page) ) it would seem that you'd need to have about 1/3 methanol to reach that point.
Also, having distilled 'Krystal Klear -20F' windshield washer fluid and obtained a liter of methanol from a gallon of the product, while leaving
significant amounts behind in the boiling flask, I can attest that the 18% figure is nonsense.
'Check the MSDS's though'
I did. http://www.unitedlabsinc.com/usa/content/pdf/msds/305msds.pd... . But that's for some sort of concentrate. Have to wonder whether it's available
OTC.
'Fractional distillation would be much better, but only if you do at least one simple distillation first '
Why would you need to do a simple distillation first?
'After 3-4 simple distillations, depending on the source, methanol of ~90% puritty, the remainder water, is obtained...'
Really. Two liquids with 35C difference in boiling points and no azeotrope, and it requires such lengths to obtain decent separation? But to be fair,
I should check the purity of my product and see if I need to push it through my fractionating column rather than just dry it with MgSO4.
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Steve_hi
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Are you able to get fondue fuel in the US, it too is sold by recochem over the counter and is Methanol also STP brand gas line anti freeze is methyl
alcohol and it's imported. I believe from the US
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mr.crow
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On a related note I tried to buy some methanol from the University a while ago and they wouldn't let me. Said it was their most watched. wtf I can get
a gallon from Canadian Tire for 6 bucks
The Canadian Tire stuff says 99.9% purity but my friend distilled it and it had significant fractions with different boiling points.
bbartlog: Usually a simple distillation strips off all the junk, then a fractional distillation to purify it.
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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Nilson
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http://whatsinproducts.com/search_ingredients_result.php?che...
Looks like Snap Gas Line Anti-freeze and Pyroil Gas Line Anti-freeze have (at least they claim) high amounts.
I'd still recommend some distillation for purity of course, but they seem to be a potentially good source.
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Arthur Dent
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| Quote: Originally posted by mr.crow | | The Canadian Tire stuff says 99.9% purity but my friend distilled it and it had significant fractions with different boiling points.
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Ow. 
Goes to show you can't really rely on what the label says! That's disappointing because I have a 1 liter bottle that says 99%+ and right now, I'm just
not sure anymore.
On the other hand, that might be water impurities from the atmosphere, If I recall, CH<sub>3</sub>OH sucks up water from the atmosphere
quite readily, doesn't it?
I guess this is going to be a neat weekend experiment to check the purity of my methanol, and maybe frac distill some to keep in an airtight
container. This will give me a reason to try out my brand new vigreux for the first time! 
Robert
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
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mr.crow
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Im not sure about being hygroscopic, but I know it doesn't form an azeotrope with water
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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nervSreck
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please excuse my stupidity, i didn't even take high school chem. i was under the assumption you wanted to drink it,but i guess you want it for a cheap
solvent? sorry for wasting your time.
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Arthur Dent
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Sigh... 
--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
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plante1999
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at canac marci in qc/can you can find 99.9 % methanol for 5dollars a gallon , no additive , all my glassware is cleaned with it.
I never asked for this.
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bfesser
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| Quote: Originally posted by nervSreck | | please excuse my stupidity, i didn't even take high school chem. i was under the assumption you wanted to drink it,but i guess you want it for a cheap
solvent? sorry for wasting your time. |
Don't worry about it. Just keep reading this forum and you'll learn a lot!
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soma
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| Quote: Originally posted by quicksilver | Heet's fairly expensive for the amount sold; no? IF one has access to a janitorial suppliers there is a product using 99%+ methanol for cleaning
boilers at 3-4 USD a gal.
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Any more info on this? Name - brand?
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Dragunov-21
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Just go to a motor racing supplier/store/garage.
Methanol is a race fuel, and you should be able to get it get it 99.98% pure for sweet FA.
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Dragunov-21
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Wait, Posts: 1? wtf?
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CaptainOfSmug
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Sorry of bringing up a fairly dead thread but since it seems to fit what I'm trying to do at the moment I figure what the hell. I'm new to chemistry,
and by new I mean I've only completed a handful of beginning experiments. I'm currently distilling some
-30degree menthanol. I know it's cheaper to just buy methanol but I was curious if I could do this and am doing nothing today. My question is, and
it may be stupid, but how can I test the purity of this... or if my solution is even methanol? I'm assuming after my simple distillation I will have
to do a fractional one but am unsure. I mostly just wanted methanol for an experient out of the "Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry". Thanks for
your help in advance!
[Edited on 12-6-2012 by CaptainOfSmug]
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