Whathappensif
Hazard to Self
Posts: 53
Registered: 9-7-2020
Member Is Offline
|
|
Societal collapse: What do you think would be most needed?
Hi everyone, I am new to the forum 
Scenario:
Coronavirus pandemic overwhelms the Earth, almost everyone is infected, a fifth of the world's population is dead, the survivors have long term
chronic health issues (brain damage, breathing difficulties, etc.)
Many economies collapse, governments try to spend their way out of problems leading to hyperinflation, there is unemployment, starvation, social
unrest, anarchy.
Question:
So my question is, what technologies, processes or chemicals do you think would be essential to surviving in the new post-apocalyptic reality I posed
above?
If I had to name a single technology, it would be the Chloralkali cell. Reason for this is that you can make the following products from it:
Sodium hydroxide -> Saponification of oils/fats to soap
Sodium hypochlorite -> Bleach for sterilization
Sodium chlorate/perchlorate -> Explosives & propellants for self-defense
Other probably very useful technologies would be portable solar cells, a combined heat & power plant using a Stirling engine (unlike other power
plants this one can use a variety of fuels, including wood or paper), a biogas fermenter and maybe an improvised Birkeland-Eyde nitric acid generator
if you have the electricity.
In terms of processes, fermenting and distilling would be useful, to produce ethanol for staying high  and for sterilization.
Would be glad to hear your opinion.
|
|
|
mackolol
Hazard to Others
Posts: 459
Registered: 26-10-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Funky
|
|
Almost every drug would be really desired.
Medicines too the basic ones the most: paracetamol, ibuprofen, acetylsalicylic acid.
For coronavirus, I think chloroquine could make you rich or something that people think helps with the disease.
And a lot of disinfecting agent. We are not even near the collapse, but yet when the epidemy was at its best, prices of IPA in Poland have risen like
6 times and it made me mad about it.
[Edited on 10-7-2020 by mackolol]
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
You need precious metals, then you can trade those for whatever you need.
Edit: or the means to distill large amounts of ethanol, as there will always be a market for that.
[Edited on 10-7-2020 by Tsjerk]
|
|
|
Belowzero
Hazard to Others
Posts: 173
Registered: 6-5-2020
Location: Member Is Offline
Member Is Offline
|
|
Penicillin production will be very much desired and might be very valuable.
It can be made in reasonable quantities with few starting materials.
|
|
|
RedDwarf
Hazard to Others
Posts: 167
Registered: 16-2-2019
Location: UK (North West)
Member Is Offline
Mood: Variable
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by mackolol  |
For coronavirus, I think chloroquine could make you rich or something that people think helps with the disease.
[Edited on 10-7-2020 by mackolol] |
Only if people continue to believe the febrile (t)wittering of brain dead politicians whose only interest is their own pockets and self
agrandissement. Chloroquine DOES NOT help with coronavirus and has lots of high risk side effects. [Rant mode off]
Going back to the original post, economic collapse and anarchy effectively mean that trade (both national and international) collapses, so large scale
processes don't work (no market for the products even if you could get the necessary energy and raw material inputs, and protect the installation), so
small scale local operations become king effectively ruling out processes such as chloralkali cells.
I'd go for pyrolysis of wood and (scavenged) plastics to produce chemical feedstocks and extracting active compounds (drugs/precursors) from plants.
|
|
|
Ubya
International Hazard
Posts: 1247
Registered: 23-11-2017
Location: Rome-Italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm a maddo scientisto!!!
|
|
pyrolisis of plastics to get a somewhat crude oil would probably help. im not sure if during a global collapse oil mining, refining and oil
transportation would keep going, probably yes as it is the fuel of our world, but in an apocalypse scenario this might not hold true.
the chloroalkali process surely is one of the most important and basic processes (and quite easy even at small scales).
without big industrial plants pumping out ammonia, agriculture will suffer.
it might be worthwhile to start building the good old nitrate pits.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
feel free to correct my grammar, or any mistakes i make
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Firstly everyone needs to watch "the last man on earth". It's never been more relevant.
Once you get past the cringeworthy annoyingness of the lead actor it's fukn hilarious.
It's like they seen into the future about ppl dying from the "virus".
Plastic is really just oil precursor and needs to be viewed as a commodity.most of what I throw in the non recycling bin is fully recyclable soft
plastics which are apparently perfect for making hydrocarbons.or fuels or back into plastic.
Saltwater is necessary for making caustic soda and bleach.and salt is a good food preservative. Cooking oil is diesel precursor. Yeasts would be
needed to make alcohol and vinegar for food preservation.wood can be cooked for wood gas and carbon for metal smelting/recycling.pyroligneus acid can
be made from wood as well. Even urine would become a commodity for ammonia and less so for Phosphorus.in north Korea tanker cars of human crap are a
common commodity. there basically living in the dark ages there. These are where I would start with the basics.
[Edited on 10-7-2020 by draculic acid69]
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sorry, I'm already working those to make black powder.
Got any pee to sell ?
I can switch it for the charcoal I'm making in the woods so I can be ready for the moment we get back to the bronze age.
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2799
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
Seems like you'd still need the Haber process... and if you couldn't build a Haber reactor the easiest alternative would be the cyanamide process:
CaCO3 + 4 C >> CaC2 + 3 CO
CaC2 + N2 >> CaCN2 + C
In addition to urea, you could easily make melamine which is one step away from the very useful melamine-formaldehyde. Acetylene is likewise useful
for all sorts of stuff.
|
|
|
brubei
Hazard to Others
Posts: 188
Registered: 8-3-2015
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
cellulose extraction for toilet paper
antibiotics
pain killer (morphine extraction)
alcohol
[Edited on 10-7-2020 by brubei]
I'm French so excuse my language
|
|
|
SWIM
National Hazard
Posts: 970
Registered: 3-9-2017
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by brubei | cellulose extraction for toilet paper
antibiotics
pain killer (morphine extraction)
alcohol
[Edited on 10-7-2020 by brubei] |
You could probably get by with:
bidets
sulfa drugs
opium
But alcohol is hard to replace.
|
|
|
OldNubbins
Hazard to Others
Posts: 136
Registered: 2-2-2017
Location: CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Comfortably Numb
|
|
I'll take it a step further and say:
wet rag
moldy bread
stick to bite down on
still need alcohol though!
|
|
|
njl
National Hazard
Posts: 609
Registered: 26-11-2019
Location: under the sycamore tree
Member Is Offline
Mood: ambivalent
|
|
Technically speaking, you could deal with all of these problems with a squirt bottle full of alcohol.
|
|
|
Eddie Current
Hazard to Self
Posts: 78
Registered: 25-7-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Whathappensif | Hi everyone, I am new to the forum
Scenario:
Coronavirus pandemic overwhelms the Earth, almost everyone is infected, a fifth of the world's population is dead, the survivors have long term
chronic health issues (brain damage, breathing difficulties, etc.)
Many economies collapse, governments try to spend their way out of problems leading to hyperinflation, there is unemployment, starvation, social
unrest, anarchy.
Question:
So my question is, what technologies, processes or chemicals do you think would be essential to surviving in the new post-apocalyptic reality I posed
above?
If I had to name a single technology, it would be the Chloralkali cell. Reason for this is that you can make the following products from it:
Sodium hydroxide -> Saponification of oils/fats to soap
Sodium hypochlorite -> Bleach for sterilization
Sodium chlorate/perchlorate -> Explosives & propellants for self-defense
Other probably very useful technologies would be portable solar cells, a combined heat & power plant using a Stirling engine (unlike other power
plants this one can use a variety of fuels, including wood or paper), a biogas fermenter and maybe an improvised Birkeland-Eyde nitric acid generator
if you have the electricity.
In terms of processes, fermenting and distilling would be useful, to produce ethanol for staying high and for sterilization.
Would be glad to hear your opinion. |
Enough chemistry equipment to make chemicals.
|
|
|
brubei
Hazard to Others
Posts: 188
Registered: 8-3-2015
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by njl | | Technically speaking, you could deal with all of these problems with a squirt bottle full of alcohol. |
collapse is not a problem of demand, it's a problem of offer
I'm French so excuse my language
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
