John paul III
Hazard to Others
Posts: 110
Registered: 28-4-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Is there an alternative to dioxane yet for thermochemical sodium production?
I've heard of many solvents being discovered as appropriate for the alcohol catalyzed sodium production, but was there ever an alternative found to
dioxane for the separation of thermochemically produced sodium?
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6338
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
Not as far as I am aware. Dioxane seems to just hit the sweet spot.
(Which is a real shame because my dioxane drying and purification abilities suck. My yield is embarrasingly low and the amount of polymeric gunk I
have produced is ridiculous.)
[Edited on 27-5-2019 by j_sum1]
|
|
|
John paul III
Hazard to Others
Posts: 110
Registered: 28-4-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I wonder if tetrahydrofuran would work for potassium. It has a very similiar structure to dioxane, and way lower toxicity. lt's lower boiling point
would unfortunately make it unsuitable for sodium.
|
|
|
John paul III
Hazard to Others
Posts: 110
Registered: 28-4-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I noticed Potassium/THF and Sodium/dioxane have the same difference between metal melting point and solvent boiling point. I wonder if this proximity
could have a favorable effect on surface energy change
[Edited on 27-5-2019 by John paul III]
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2801
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
Time might be better spent improving the synthesis protocol for dioxane. I always assumed that its affinity for Mg2+ cations was important here.
I don’t think potassium is a reasonable replacement for sodium. Not only is it dangerous to handle, but I regularly hear people complain about not
being able to afford ordinary potassium salts in quantity, much less the hydroxide.
|
|
|
UC235
National Hazard
Posts: 565
Registered: 28-12-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I've not found dioxane too hard to make. Buy concentrated walmart brand antifreeze, add sulfuric acid, and distill until it starts getting black and
foamy. Yes, there is a ton of dark garbage and polymer that drops out, but everything's pretty cheap.
Potassium hydroxide is only modestly more expensive than NaOH. You just can't buy it at the hardware store. Fortunately soapmaking and biodiesel
supply websites both stock it in bulk.
|
|
|
DavidJR
National Hazard
Posts: 908
Registered: 1-1-2018
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tired
|
|
Also, consider using fractional freezing as part of the purification process for dioxane.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Already asked that question https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=14...
But it's good to see at least here one is moving the conversation forward.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Im still thinking that chelating agents like diglyme or triglyme might be an alternative.where thf was suggested above as useful for K but not sodium
one might trytetrahydropyran instead of thf or higher alkylated cyclic ethers.
[Edited on 31-5-2019 by draculic acid69]
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2801
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
There is no reason to prefer diglyme to dioxane: it’s harder to make, more expensive, harder to remove and just as carcinogenic.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Not sure diglyme even works it. Was just a suggestion.nothing so far has been proven to work apart from dioxane.whole point is to discover what works
and what doesnt.,figure out alternatives and understand the mechanism and process of how it all works.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
