RogueRose
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Questions about water electrolysis for H2 & O2 production - what electrolyte & plate material
I've been working on an electrolysis cell for a couple years and have been slow b/c of determining cell plate configuration as well as building the
right power supply. I've gotten the PSU issues ironed out (I can make just about whatever is needed). Now I'm trying to determine what electrolyte
should be used for this process - and i'm guessing this might be limited b/c of the material being used for the plates.
My current materials I'm using to build my first cell is most likely 304-316 - it may be something else, so I am trying to find someone with a XRF
scanner to test the metal.
So the electrolytes often suggested are:
KOH, NaOH, baking soda, vinegar, sodium chloride (maybe KCl as well?), Potassium Bicarb, CaCl2.
I'm also wondering if anything like MgCL2, ZnCl2, FeClx, CuClx, LiOH, AlCl3, Ammonium Sulfate or Bisulfate, ammonium hydroxide, Na2CO3
I'm not sure if any nitrates would be effective an any way, Ca(NO3)2, KNO3, NaNO3, NH4NO3. HNO3, H3PO4, oxalic acid, potassium bitartrate, citric
acid, ascorbic and many other acids
The reason I ask is because I just came across an amazing deal for stainless steel that is "430 2B" (and mirrored) though I may get XRF analysis to
verify this. It seems the 430 has very good corrosion resistance to HNO3 and organic acids and is similar to 304 in resistance.
Below are 2 links to the properties of 430 stainless steel. There are more tables and data within the pages.
http://www.pennstainless.com/stainless-grades/400-series-sta...
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General Properties
Grade 430 is a ferritic, straight chromium, non-hardenable grade, combining good corrosion resistance and formability characteristics with useful
mechanical properties. Its ability to resist nitric acid attack permits its use in specific chemical applications but automotive trim and appliance
components represents its largest fields of application.
Grade 430F is the free-machining version of this grade, available in bar form for use in automatic screw machines. Grade 434 is the molybdenum bearing
version of Grade 430 and has the same useful combination of properties. Its molybdenum addition improves corrosion resistance.
These properties for 430 are specified for flat rolled product (plate, sheet and coil) in ASTM A240/A240M. Similar but not necessarily identical
properties are specified for other products such as forgings and bar in their respective specifications. Properties of Grade 430F are specified for
bar in ASTM A582.
Applications
Typical applications for 430 grade include:
Linings for dish washers
Refrigerator cabinet panels
Automotive trim
Lashing Wire
Element Supports
Stove trim rings
Fasteners
Chimney Liners
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https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=996
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Chemical Formula
Fe, <0.12% C, 16-18% Cr, <0.75% Ni, <1.0% Mn, <1.0% Si, <0.040% P, <0.030% S
Introduction
Stainless steel grade 430 is a non-hardenable steel containing straight chromium, and belongs to the ferritic group of steels. This steel is known for
its good corrosion resistance and formability, coupled with practical mechanical properties. It can be used in certain chemical applications due to
its resistance to nitric acid.
Grade 430F stainless steel is usually provided in bar form to be used in automatic screw machines.
Grade 434 has similar properties as grade 430, although it is a molybdenum-bearing version. The molybdenum content enhances its corrosion resistance.
Key Properties
The following sections will provide the key properties of grade 430 stainless steels coil, sheet and plate - covered under ASTM A240/A240M.
Corrosion Resistance
All ferritic grades, such as stainless steel grade 430, have excellent stress corrosion cracking resistance. Grade 430 has good corrosion resistance
to numerous substances, such as certain organic acids and nitric acid. The corrosion resistance is maximized in well-polished or buffed condition. Its
pitting and crevice corrosion resistance is quite similar to that of grade 304. 430F is a high-sulfur free machining grade, and therefore the
resistance to pitting and crevice corrosion is comparatively lesser than those grades that are non-free machining.
Heat Resistance
Stainless steel grade 430 is capable of resisting oxidation up to 870°C (1598°F) in intermittent usage, and up to 815°C (1499°F) in continuous
usage. At room temperature, it has the tendency to become brittle, especially when it has been heated for a long time in the 400-600°C (752-1112°F)
range. This issue can be overcome with annealing.
Heat Treatment
Solution annealing can be performed by heating stainless steel grade 430 to 815 - 845°C (1499-1553°F). Then it has to be slow furnace cooled to
600°C (1112°F) and followed by air-cooling in a quick manner - as slow cooling between 540 and 400°C (1004 and 752°F) tends to cause
embrittlement.
For sub-critical annealing, heating should be performed to 760-815°C (1400-1499°F), followed by air-cooling or water quenching.
This stainless steel cannot be hardened by thermal treatment.
Welding
To perform any welding, stainless steel grade 430 has to be pre-heated at 150-200°C (302-392°F). In case of embrittlement in the welded metal, the
particular area can be post-weld annealed at 790-815°C (1454-1499°F); however grain refinement will not happen.
It is recommended that grade 430, 308L, 309 or 310 filler rod should be used based on the application.
Machining
The machinability of stainless steel grade 430 is a lot easier than standard austenitic steels such as grade 304 - but there is a chance for galling.
Lightly drawn bars are easier to machine than bars in the annealed condition. Grade 430F is easy to machine.
Fabrication
Stainless steel grade 430 has a low work hardening rate which enables easy bending and forming. The low ductility rate, however, makes it difficult to
perform very rigorous operations. It is possible for grade 430 wire to handle rigorous cold heading. Sub-critical intermediate annealing may be
required for extreme cold working.
Applications
The following are the applications for stainless steel grade 430:
Dish washer linings
Refrigerator cabinet panels
Element supports and fasteners
Stove trim rings and chimney liners
Automotive trim and lashing wires
The key application of grade 430F is in repeatedly used machined parts.
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j_sum1
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If you use SS, keep away from chlorides.
I have a small rig I made with a plastic bottle and a couple of strips of scrap steel of unknown composition -- I think they were scavanged from some
cheap headphones. I use NaOH as the electrolyte. There is some sign of degradation of the electrodes over time but it is not serious.
I would imagine the SS strips you have founbd will work just fine. Only one way to find out.
What scale are you working at?
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Sulaiman
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if you intend to collect oxygen and hydrogen separately
then I think that a membrane would add convenience
- allowing slightly pressurised gas to be drawn off from either side independantly.
separately, IF you are considering gas storage then pressurisation by electrolysis seems very efficient - no pump required,
but everything would be under pressure.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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markx
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Strongly alkaline electrolyte and ferrous electrodes have been the standard for water breakup via electrical current. No need to reinvent the wheel.
If sulfuric acid electrolyte is used, then lead electrodes shall do fine.
Be careful about the separation of the gases, they evolve as very fine bubbles that tend to migrate in the electrolyte and intermix even when
precautions are taken to prevent that. Like the electrodes are placed in separate housings or the cell is split by a channel. I once blew up a three
gallon acid cell that had separated electrode compartments to prevent gas mix from forming. You can guess it did not work too good 
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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WGTR
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You can polish some mild steel to a shine and use that for anode and cathode material. Sodium carbonate can be used as an electrolyte. The catch is,
that you absolutely can't have any halogens in the electrolyte. About 10mg/L of sodium chloride will cause noticeable corrosion of the anode during
operation. Much more than that will cause severe rusting. I think the anode is somewhat more tolerant to contamination if sodium hydroxide (i.e.,
strongly basic conditions) is used, if available.
Oxygen is slightly soluble in water, and can migrate over to the cathode, where it will be stripped out by the poorly soluble hydrogen gas.
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RogueRose
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Thanks for the replies. I think I'm planning on keeping the two gases mixed on the unit I'm making now. It should produce enough -on demand, for my
use, so there isn't much need to store. I plan to having maybe 1L of gas storage within the production cell, or in a chamber next to it (separated by
a bubbler) and then another bubbler separating the first one from the hose connection to the torch. I'm hoping that this will work as a flash-back
regulator/arrestor as the flame should't be able to get past the bubbler connected to the hose.
This unit is meant as a fuel source for brazing, welding, soldering (high temp silver soldering or brazing) and melting metals.
I'm really confused about plate arraingement as I have seen probably 20-30 different methods of arrainging them. I thought I had my configuration
down, but after reading some more sites, I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
What is odd is I've seen some people reporting that amperage has nothing do to with gas evolution (and it wasn't because of limited plate space).
This seems totally illogical and impossible. I've also seen people using 12v for electrolysis between 2 plates, which seems way to high (and i don't
think there is benefit for that if there is electrolyte) especially with 3/32 to 1/8" spacing. I was under the impression that splitting water would
work at about 2.7v (another site states 1.24v & anything above that is heat) but some people run 3 - 3.5. So Wiki does state 1.23/4v is the
voltage needed to split water, everything else is heat. Some pages say that electrolysis works better at higher temps (or at least "elevated")
I could very easily set up alternating plates + - + - + - + - +, each polarity in parallel, and run it at the ~3vdc. The problem with this is that
with high current that the rectifier is going to drop the V from .75-1.25v (which isn't a problem as far as voltage b/c I can give it 3.75 to 4.25 or
whatever is needed) but a very high amperage -let's say 200A, that is 150 - 250w that has to be dissipated from the rectifier. IDK if there are
rectifiers that have a MUCH lower forward voltage drop, but that could be an option. Ideally I'd like to run this cell with rectified 120vac =
(120*1.41) 169vdc, or if I had 240v then I'm looking at 338vdc. I'm also not crazy about running 170 or 340v DC in a cell with water in it, lol.
Now I do have a beefy 2600w 42vdc PSU (actuall 4 of them) which might be a more reasonable voltage and at 14 plates, should give me 3v each. or if
1.24v is used I'd need 33-34 plates
I am a little concerned that my SS has some chromium in it which which one site said is a no-no they say use only "cold rolled. This is due to the
formation of hexavalent chromium I didn't know there was any Stainless steel w/o chromium as it is one of the more abundant elements in Stainless.
Here is a link to all types/series of steel & their compositions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_steel_grades#Stainless_ste...
I know in chlorate cells SS is used often along with an inhibitor (K/Na chromate/dicromate maybe). Would that be an option in this setup? Or maybe
change the anode to normal steel?
Here are a couple links I was looking over to refresh my understanding of the process.
https://www.hho-generator.de/en/hho-cell-configuration.htm
http://www.hhoforums.com/archive/index.php/t-1254.html
http://www.hho4free.com/plate_configurations.html
http://www.hho4free.com/configurator/cell_configurations.htm...
http://www.hho4free.com/amperage_understanding.html
http://www.hho4free.com/configurator/cell_configurator.html
http://www.hho4free.com/electrolytes.html
This has gotten more complex than what I read a year or so ago. Too many toutubers or forum trolls putting out BS about what they'd
accomplished/done.
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j_sum1
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Fuel source?
Don't let the gases mix then. 2H2 + O2 = bang
I attach a couple of photos of my apperatus. This particular one has galvanised fencing wire as the electrodes and has been sitting damp and empty
for some time.
Fill to the brim with a dilute solution of NaOH (No headspace)
Then lead the tubing to a water bath with a little detergent.
The bubbles produced make a lovely explosion -- especially once you get past the air in the line.
Alternatively, you can fill a zip-lock bag with the gas mix. I have found this less satisfying however.
Obviously, your setup will be a bit more sophisticated. My point is that collection of the two gases together makes for an explosive stiochiometric
mix that is not going to be any use unless you want the whole lot to go up all at once.
 
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andy1988
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I'm fond of this youtube channel on the topic. However his setup appears to exceed your need.
[Edited on 28-2-2019 by andy1988]
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RogueRose
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Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  | Fuel source?
Don't let the gases mix then. 2H2 + O2 = bang
I attach a couple of photos of my apperatus. This particular one has galvanised fencing wire as the electrodes and has been sitting damp and empty
for some time.
Fill to the brim with a dilute solution of NaOH (No headspace)
Then lead the tubing to a water bath with a little detergent.
The bubbles produced make a lovely explosion -- especially once you get past the air in the line.
Alternatively, you can fill a zip-lock bag with the gas mix. I have found this less satisfying however.
Obviously, your setup will be a bit more sophisticated. My point is that collection of the two gases together makes for an explosive stiochiometric
mix that is not going to be any use unless you want the whole lot to go up all at once. |
Hey, what voltage are you running and do you know the current draw?
I strongly have to disagree with using a stoi mix is going to create an explosion (a flame suppressor/arrestor will be installed at the base of the
torch handle - I'll have to see what others are doing again - but I do see what you are saying, I just don't know how others have gotten it to work
unless the videos are lies) I've looked at about 10 different setups where people are using a straight H2 + O2 mix running through either an
acetylene torch tip (using only one feed tube up to the tip, where there are 2, Acetylene and O2) I've seen people welding, cutting and more with no
problem with that.
I've also seen people make quartz cutting tips (about a 6-10" lenth of ~1/4" OD quartz tube) then it is bent about 30-45 degrees and the cutting end
is heated * stretched to give a cutting tip (the excess is cut off and and melted to round over). It handles insanely high temps, probably close to
tungsten, deff works with H2 + O2.
Can I ask what you are using for an electrode's?
I've seen lots of videos of people putting out 5-10LPM ofH2 + O2 (they claim it's "HHO...") and it is amazing how much it cuts, how quickly. I could
finally do quartz glass work, being able to make custom pieces as it produces a lot more heat than almost any other gas.
I'm looking into some PEM's (proton exchange membranes) or something that could work in it's place (suggestions?) this way I could separate the H2 and
O2, which is the ultimate goal after getting a crude mixed gas setup working. Problem is that those are crazy pricey.
I did come across some mirrored (VERY highly polished!) 20g sheets of 430 stainless steel (4ft x 10ft) which might be more suitable to using a PEM
as I could use less plates and have less. For the price, I'm trying to figure out anything that this can be used for and am wondering if it will work
in the work for plates in a custom electrolysis cell (40 sq ft and over 80 sheets available!!!) I was planning to pick one up but then came across
the "chromium issue" where someone says no SS in electrolysis. I think a neat use would be a mirrored parabolic trough for heat collection - that
could be some SEROIOUS heat collection (great for some farms around here that need lots of thermal energy).
I'm still wondering if chromate/dichromate can be used to inhibit corrosion of the plates - just like on the Chlorate sells. that use stainless steel.
I guess the last choice would be to use lead, I have 100's of lbs, though IDK how to make is thin enough to use, maybe pouring in a 12" sq mold and
allowig to settle, then milling or sanding?
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Twospoons
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I built mine using SS plates (316 from memory) and non-woven polypropylene cloth as a separator ( the kind used as ground cover in gardens). NaOH as
electrolyte.
While 1.5V per cell is enough to get the electrolysis going, I found I was running four cells at about 12V in order to push 20A through for a decent
gas flow. There is always extra voltage due to the plate and electrolyte resistance.
I didn't get any noticeable cross mixing of the gas with the PP separator. But when I did mix the gases ... it doesn't take much to leave your ears
ringing.
Helicopter: "helico" -> spiral, "pter" -> with wings
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j_sum1
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I have cranked it up to 12 volts. At that level I think it is grossly inefficient -- maybe only double the volume of gas as 3V. Current is sub 1
amp, but I forget the actual amount. It could be as low as 0.1.
Elextrodes I have used are simply scrap iron of various compositions. I don't think it matters much.
If you are talking litres of gas, you are working at a far greater scale than I am. Running a quick check:
1 litre of gas per minute production translates to 0.09 moles of electrons per minute
This cranks out at 143 Amps (unless I made a mistake.) Assuming 100% efficiency.
This forces you to one of
Low gas flow rates
Make and store your gas
Insanely high scale equipment
I know nothing about nozzles for this kind of thing so there may be something feasible. What I do know is that I have seen accidents happen due to
accidental ignition of the feed tube. In the bubble ignition experiment I described above, I have seen the reaction progress through the tube and
continue in the headspace of the bottle setting off about 50mL of gas mixture. It is not something you really want to encourage. If you have a
nozzle design that somehow prevents back-propagation then ok. I would be doing some research or looking at a mixing nozzle. This is undoubedly more
technical than the electrolysis apperatus.
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RogueRose
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Are there any substances that could be used for this application that would ab/adsorb the O2, I know that fine iron filings will heat up with O2
(pocket had warmers) but this seems to be a relatively poor way to remove O2.
Are there other substances which might do a good job, especially if I could use a large quantity (absorb maybe 100L of O2 before refilling/swapping.
It would be awesome if it were regenerable!
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j_sum1
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| Quote: Originally posted by RogueRose | Are there any substances that could be used for this application that would ab/adsorb the O2, I know that fine iron filings will heat up with O2
(pocket had warmers) but this seems to be a relatively poor way to remove O2.
Are there other substances which might do a good job, especially if I could use a large quantity (absorb maybe 100L of O2 before refilling/swapping.
It would be awesome if it were regenerable! |
My instinct would be more towards physical separation of the electrodes: in a kind of Hoffman Apparatus arrangement. Sure you increase resistance and
lower efficiency. But you can make up for this with some time. What size are your storage vessels? You can always run the thing for a week.
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RogueRose
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | I have cranked it up to 12 volts. At that level I think it is grossly inefficient -- maybe only double the volume of gas as 3V. Current is sub 1
amp, but I forget the actual amount. It could be as low as 0.1.
Elextrodes I have used are simply scrap iron of various compositions. I don't think it matters much.
If you are talking litres of gas, you are working at a far greater scale than I am. Running a quick check:
1 litre of gas per minute production translates to 0.09 moles of electrons per minute
This cranks out at 143 Amps (unless I made a mistake.) Assuming 100% efficiency.
This forces you to one of
Low gas flow rates
Make and store your gas
Insanely high scale equipment
I know nothing about nozzles for this kind of thing so there may be something feasible. What I do know is that I have seen accidents happen due to
accidental ignition of the feed tube. In the bubble ignition experiment I described above, I have seen the reaction progress through the tube and
continue in the headspace of the bottle setting off about 50mL of gas mixture. It is not something you really want to encourage. If you have a
nozzle design that somehow prevents back-propagation then ok. I would be doing some research or looking at a mixing nozzle. This is undoubedly more
technical than the electrolysis apperatus. |
Thanks for your input I appreciate your reposes!. I'm looking over some professional units ATM and seeing how some things are handled. I'm a little
hesitant to take the word or people on the forums who make "HHO" for "free energy" in their cars. Many of them have migrated over to "hho" gas for
doing what I'm doing. Now IDK how much is plain out lies, or if there is some truth in what they say. Maybe some have just been lucky up to this
point.
Until I can either separate the gases or 100% scrub the O2 from the stream, I'm going to be using them mixed and will be using a PWM that controls the
output timing, so if I don't need 100% of my max output, I can drop it down to whatever output I need. I suspect I will have about 100ml mixed gas
storage in the production cell, then about 30-50ml in the first bubbler and about the same on the second bubbler which will be the final flash-back
arestor.
I see what you mean that the gas might ignite back through the torch as once the flame is burning, what is blocking it from migrating back through the
torch handle to the 30-50ml air/gas resevoir at the top of the second bubbler. I've seen a bunch of setups where this is done, IDK if they use some
kind of check valve or one-way valve, but I'll look into it and see what is being done.
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Sulaiman
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You certainly should be wary of MOST of the results shown on HHO sites.
A few years ago I joined such forums hoping to find something useful.
Blind faith seems to be more important than measurements,
even when measurements are made, many straight out LIE.
I was very unpopular due to requesting actual measured performance data ,
and as much as I tried, scientific logic is not for (most of) these folks.
316L (or 316) s/s with KOH (or NaOH) seems the most cost-effective combination commonly used.
By definition s/s has at least 10.5% chromium, 316 has 16.5 to 18.5 percent.
Unlike most electrolysis cells (chlorate etc.) it is the cathode that is most important, it is often the source of greatest over-potential.
A Pt cathode is supposed to be good, carbon bad.
I am surprised by how few reports of HHO cell explosions there are,
flash-back arrestors are often marginal at best.
Also, I have no proof and I've not heard of it occuring but
I'm fairly sure that a stoichiometric 2.H2 + O2 mixture can be ignited (detonated?) by u.v.
I dropped the electrolysis of water to power a gas torch idea
after I called my local industrial gas distributor (BOC) and discovered that
no license is required for purchase/storage/use of an oxy-acetylene torch
and everything can be delivered at less than the anticipated cost of developing a reliable electrolysis cell.
HHO may be useful/safer/cost-effective for jewelers etc. but probably not for much larger heat output.
So I suggest that you check out the availability and cost of bottled gasses before you commit yourself to a fairly large, potentially futile project.
Doing at a small scale to learn (and play) is I think a good idea,
but not at a commercial or industrial scale.
P.S. electrolysis of water could be up to 80% efficient (good luck)
but if you get 50% overall efficiency I will be massively impressed 
So if you want 1 kW heating power from your gas torch then you will need 2 kW electrical input, etc.
_________________________________________________________
A cautionary tale:
As school kids my parter in chemstry-crime and I were experimenting using his small bedroom as a lab,
we made an oxy-acetylene torch using calcium carbide with water to make acetylene
and (ex-battery) manganese dioxide to decompose hydrogen peroxide solution (hair bleach) to produce the oxygen,
the two gasses were mixed at the nozzle - great !
I had the brilliant insight that calcium carbide may catalyse the decomposition of hydrogen peroxide solution,
and the water from the hydrogen perixide soluton would react with the calcium casrbide to produce acetylene,
so we set up a test;
using a 250ml pyrex beaker to hold upright
a 1" x 6" test tube fitted with a rubber bung with a glass tube tapered at the end to form a nozzle.
The test tube was about 1/2-filled with hydrogen peroxide,
a few lumps of calcium carbide added,
then the stopper was fitted and the gas stream lit.
A large yellow smoky flame quickly got bluer and hotter and noisier and smaller and noisier and smaller and ... oh shit !
We both turned our backs to the 'experiment' and covered our heads with our arms - just in time for the explosion.
One boiling tube + one beaker = an awful lot of shrapnel, and cleaning up 
After this we did most of our 'experiments' in my fathers garage, or outdoors behind barriers
Kids: don't try this at home.
We wore spectacles and lab coats therefore we were invulnerable to any harm,
also, we were experienced 15 year old chemists 
[Edited on 28-2-2019 by Sulaiman]
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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RogueRose
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Thanks for your input but this is something that I want to do to either get a working, fully functional unit or to disprove the dummies on YT. The
whole project is going to be on a blog/site I'm going to be publishing down the road, along with data I've been collecting for over 8 years.
If I can disprove the concepts than that is fine, or if I can get 50% output, then that is alright as well, hopefully I can work my magic and get
something around 80%+.
The problem is that I have 10 pieces of 3" x 38" 23-24g (.025" of some kind of SS - magnet's don't stick to it and it was polished -not really
mirrored) I need to find someone local (scrap yard or fabrication plant???) with an XRF scammer/analyze the metal - I found one that is 1 hour away
but there is a seller there offering LOTS of pieces of 20ga 430 2B mirrored finish (about .0375" for 20ga, the sheets I already jave are cut to 3"
widths. Now I just need to determine plate configration. to allow for the voltage and current I want.
The thing is that I hear of people making many sealed cells within a lager cellI does this mean that the water doesn'tshare one conductivity path to
the rest of the
The thing is with the 4ft by 10ft 430 20g mirrored finish, is that there is plenty of material with which to work and probably have A LOT left over.
Finally I wouldn't mind selling, trading or bartering some of these units, especially if I can separate the H2 & O2. The finished config would
include the electrolysis cell among the following: complete with [power supply, back flash arrestors & torch end(s). Some glass blowers really
like this idea b/c they really like the idea of having something hotter than propane for working with quartz and most can't get hydrogen from a gas
supplier (even O2 has become regulated to non-businesses - so the guy who sells glassware on the side needs to pay an expensive yearly license (plus
rental of tanks, and delivery charge - it's illegal to pickup w/o certified driver) - so an 80-$100 tank could cost you $15 for first months rent for
the tank, $10 every folowing month, then a minimum $100 delivery fee for most areas unless you are w/n 5 miles. So if this projectis possible, it's
worth it.
If I can figure out something else to make with the 20g 430 mirrored SS ( which is less than $1/sq ft or $35 for a 4ft x 10ft piece. At that price,
I'd think there could be a lot of projects which could be very useful.
Now I know I could build a HNO3 still with this, 430 is fine for working with concentrated HNO3 and other organic acids). So maybe I might make
some still's the bottombase unit (boiling part), and then add on some stainless pipe for the riser/vigurex colum. I've seen 5 gal still units of very
cheap SS ( not corrosion resistant) for $400 + S&H. I already have a tig and mig welders and acetylene, so maybe I can make something work using
this. I'm open to any other suggestions.
Is there any labware that could make use of 430 mirred Stanless steel?
On a completely different side note, i've designed an O2 concentrator (VERY high output 30-90LPM at 93-96% concentration) but unless I get help from
someone to put it together and do some testing this will be put on hold. This is another product for glass blowers & welders.
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Sulaiman
International Hazard
Posts: 3695
Registered: 8-2-2015
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Member Is Offline
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... "or to disprove the dummies on YT"
They will neither watch nor believe your video
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... if I can get 50% output, then that is alright as well, hopefully I can work my magic and get something around 80%+.
If as I do you consider efficiency is hydrogen output per kW consumed from the wall socket,
then I truly wish you well - but expect you to fail 
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... I have 10 pieces of 3" x 38" 23-24g (.025" of some kind of SS - magnet's don't stick to it
s/s that is non-magnetic is most likely 316 grade.
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The thing is that I hear of people making many sealed cells within a lager cellI does this mean that the water doesn'tshare one conductivity path
Maybe they use concentric cylinders for electrodes ?
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... On a completely different side note, i've designed an O2 concentrator (VERY high output 30-90LPM at 93-96% concentration)
I have two semi-medical oxygen generators,
moisture MUST be removed from the air before it gets to the molecular sieves (I think type 13x),
so give plenty of space for CaCl2 or similar.
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Twospoons
International Hazard
Posts: 1324
Registered: 26-7-2004
Location: Middle Earth
Member Is Offline
Mood: A trace of hope...
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https://news.stanford.edu/2015/06/23/water-splitter-catalyst...
So a crude approximation of that may be using a 50/50 nickel iron alloy, and oxidising the surface. A comparison with stainless steel would be
interesting
Helicopter: "helico" -> spiral, "pter" -> with wings
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