mfilip62
pierced by a crossbow under a bridge while eating Billy goats
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sucrose octanitrate
There are very few info on this stuff,considering it is pretty easy
to make by simple nitration and everyone has plain sugar!
My friend made small quantity,and it has pretty strange sticky
consistency.Don't know much abbout it's explosive properties but
it will mix with any powder explosive like great binder
to produce inert-free HEs.
Anyone detonate it or even synth. it!?
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The WiZard is In
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First - A safety message.
Assuming you are in da US of A there are two types
of safety of concern to you (me — all of us!).
1 - Personal
2- Political. I operate on the principle that at my age
20-years is a life sentence.
That said for more than enough info to get you in trouble
for 1 and 2 see —
Phokion Naoúm
Nitroglycerin and Nitroglycerin Explosives
William & Wilkins Company
1928
(Has been reprinted.)
The most common use (in the past) was in sugar/glycerin
conitrates, details in la book.
Byda - Conitrates are listed in the CFR's as an Explosive.
----------
Trivia - The vast majority of explosives work by producing
large amounts of gases very rapidly. However, there is
one group that produces no gases, explosive action the
result of the rapid production of heat.
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hissingnoise
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Nitrosucrose is less powerful and less brisant than ETN and HNM; a consequence of its negative oxygen balance and tacky, gummy consistency.
BTW, mfilip62 is in Croatia where I'm sure regulations, if there are any, are less stringent than in the US or here in the EU.
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The WiZard is In
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Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise  | Nitrosucrose is less powerful and less brisant than ETN and HNM; a consequence of its negative oxygen balance and tacky, gummy consistency.
BTW, mfilip62 is in Croatia where I'm sure regulations, if there are any, are less stringent than in the US or here in the EU.
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Croatia. The original version of Naoúm was in German
if this is any help.
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The WiZard is In
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| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | Nitrosucrose is less powerful and less brisant than ETN and HNM; a consequence of its negative oxygen balance and tacky, gummy consistency.
BTW, mfilip62 is in Croatia where I'm sure regulations, if there are any, are less stringent than in the US or here in the EU.
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Noted. That said — I have no idea who reads my posts,
their level of experience. I envision some some X-age know-it-all
sitting there saying Wow I can make explosives from sugar!
Well yes and from pubic hair, &c., &c.
There is a legal principle under civil law which
I also use as a personal moral one called failure to warn . For example I mixed
x-y and z and WOW... Failing to mention that they lost 4-fingers
and an arm when it later exploded.
Now I frequently get irate posts when I mention safety. For the we know-it-all —
don't need no stink'n safety lectures people, try this....
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain;
And drinking largely sobers us again.
Alexander Pope
1688-1744
01-02-89
[rewritten from a UPI News Wire story djh]
BETHESDA, Md. - Four teenagers described by friends as intelligent and as
having a fascination with chemistry and rocketry were tinkering with a
homemade bomb this weekend when the experiment went awry. Relatives of the
foursome described them as studious, curious and fascinated with science.
Diego S-R, who graduated from Walt Whitman High in 1988 and was close
friends with Gustasvo M. and Bruno P. described the youths as "the best
chemistry students in the school." A family friend of the Dov F. described him as
"always a brilliant child, extraordinarily brilliant." The friend speculated the young
men were planning New Year's fireworks. "(They were likely) trying to find out
how much power they could get out of mixing chemicals," Diego S-R told the
Washington Post. "They were probably going to go to some field and see how
big a hole they could make. They were peaceful people. They would never try to
hurt anybody."
The young men had made a potent pipe bomb as "a prank," but it exploded as
two of the youths were leaning over it. The youths, Samir G. 17, and Dov F. 18,
were killed instantly, 15-year-old Gustavo M. and Bruno P. 18, died hours after
the blast. Gustavo M. was a sophomore at Walt Whitman High School while the
others had graduated from the school last year.
[Quid rides?] Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur
Horace
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Formatik
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Nitrosucrose tends to be unstable material, like nitrocellulose that hasn't been washed and treated with special machines and processes, since it's a
sticky goop or gum. That makes it very difficult to even wash. And so it tends to decompose.
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The WiZard is In
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| Quote: Originally posted by Formatik | Nitrosucrose tends to be unstable material, like nitrocellulose that hasn't been washed and treated with special machines and processes, since it's a
sticky goop or gum. That makes it very difficult to even wash. And so it tends to decompose.
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Naoúm notes (p. 250) The pure nitrates of saccarose
are very difficult to purify on account of their peculiar properties,and
to bring into a state of good stability....
... used as such [explosive] in the United States and Germany
during the World War [I] for a time, and which has obtained
a certain degree of of importance . [55] This is a solution of
nitrated saccharose in nitroglycerine, obtained by the nitration
of ordinary sugar, refined cane or beet sugar, dissolved
in glycerine.
[55] The use of this was started in the United States in
1911 and has continued. —Translator.
Sez — DuPont sold explosive oil obtained by the nitration
of sugar and glycerine, as nitrohydrene.
Lead block
Nitrohydrene 80/20 97% TNT
75/25 94
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bahamuth
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I tried to nitrate sugar once, but it needed constant stirring and cooling in an ice bath, turned away for 5 sec in the end of the nitration and a red
column of smoke rises from the beaker, this happened twice so I gave up.
But I made some with the lower nitrates of sugar (just ended the nitration earlier) and they was also tacky and sticky. Not anything extraordinary
about it so I let it be...
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
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mnick12
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So...
Back OT
Funny this should come up, since just last night I was doing some research on the non aromatic energetic materials. There was a small passage on
sucrose octanitrate, and here it is:
"The nitration of cane sugar69-73 yields sucrose octonitrate,
white glistening needles, which melt at 85.5°. If heated slowly,
nitrosucrose decomposes at about 135° and if heated rapidly deflagrates
at about 170°. The fused and solidified material has a
specific gravity of 1.67. It is readily soluble in methyl alcohol,
ether, and nitrobenzene, difficultly soluble in ethyl alcohol and
benzene, and insoluble in water and in petroleum ether. It reduces
Fehling's solution on warming. It is relatively stable when pure.
Monasterski reports that it gives a feeble puff under a 20-cm.
drop of a 2-kilogram weight, a puff with one of 25 cm., and a
detonation with one of 30 cm. He states that samples of 10 grams
in the Trauzl test gave average net expansions of 296 cc"
I find it interesting that the article mentions it as a crystalline solid. I once attempted a synthesis of this material when I was much younger and
much dumber, and I ended up with that goopy material which smells of nitrogen oxides.
Now I have come up with a theory as to why it ends up being a goop rather than a solid, like mentioned in the article.
As many of you may know glycerin nitrate and dinitrate have been used as plasticisers in various HE compositions, due to the fact that they are
capable of dissolving many energetic compounds. Perhaps more important is their ability to remain a liquid at lower tempuratures. So where I am going
with this is any of the lower nitrates of sucrose present in the final product would act as a plasticiser for the higher nitrates. And it only makes
sense for there to be a rather large amount of the lowers nitrates present considering you have EIGHT OH's that need to be replaced. So I would guess
you would need alot of HNO3 and alot of H2SO4 to suck up all that water being generated. You may even have better luck conducting multiple nitrations.
Hope that helped a little.
mnick12
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Not forgetting that, as in the case of glucose, the reducing part of that dioside (an aldehydic group hided inside a hemiacetal) will be oxydised into
a polyhydroxy-carboxylic acid.
That acidic molecule will add twice as much complexity to the mix of uncompletely nitrated like-like molecules...all depressing the melting point of
each other and leading to the gummy lumps.
The fact it is acidic also explains the storage unstability, alfa-hydroxy-carbo-acid and esters are more acidic than the parent carbo-acids. Somehow
trans esterification can occur on a molecular level yielding some free HNO3.
R-CH(-ONO2)-CO2H + R-CH(-ONO2)-CO2H <==> R-CH(-O-CO-)(-CO-O-)CH-R + 2 HNO3
[Edited on 9-6-2010 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Blasty
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I found this interesting take on the nitration of sugar by mixing it with starch, which produces an apparently more stable mixed explosive, in Tenney
L. Davis' Sugars in Fireworks and Explosives (The Sugar Research Foundation, 1948, page 157):
| Quote: | Nitrostarch explosives are similar to dynamite except that they contain the solid nitrostarch instead of the liquid nitroglycerin. They are not
subject to exudation and are not injured by low temperatures. They supply a possible outlet for a certain amount of cane sugar in the explosives
industry, for nitrosucrose in admixture with nitrostarch can be stabilized more cheaply and more conveniently than it can be by itself. Wyler has
discovered that a mixture of cane sugar (glucose or cerelose) with 10% or more of its weight of powdered corn starch or cassava starch can be nitrated
to yield a fluffy pulverulent mass which can be stabilized satisfactorily and can be handled as a powder at ordinary temperatures or higher.
"100 lbs. Of finely ground cane sugar is thoroughly mixed with 25 lbs. of dried corn starch and the mixture fed to 360 lbs of 95% HNO, keeping the
nitration mixture at a low temperature, say, below 20ºC. at the end of this operation, all of the starch and all of the sugar will have gone into
solution. Next 510 lbs. of oleum of about 105% H2SO4, strength is added slowly with continued cooling and stirring. When all of this oleum has been
added, the nitrated sugar will have separed into a doughy plastic mass. This is separated from the acid and transferred to a kneading tank supplied
with a current of tap water, where, in a short time the doughy mass is converted into a fine, pulverulent precipitate which is filtered, washed with
tap water, and transferred to a stirring tank containing dilute alkali solution in which it is stirred for one hour or more to stabilize the nitrated
product, which consists of a mutual solid solution of nitrated sugar and nitrated starch. The alkaline mixture is then filtered, washed with tap
water, and dried at about 40°C."
Wyler also describes another method of nitration, with mixed acid instead of with strong nitric acid and oleum. The same amount of material is
nitrated with mixed acid containing 64% sulfuric acid, 34% nitric acid, and 2% water. The temperature of the nitration is kept, preferably, below
20ºC. And the gummy crude product is removed and handled as has been described.
The "dried co-nitrated product is a slightly yellow, dusty, low density powder, readily detonable and soluble in the usual solvents used for gelatin
explosives and for lacquers. When made in the manner just described the product will contain about 14.50% N present as nitrate, and its packing
density will be about one-third that of ordinary nitrostarch." It is "normally of a finely divided or pulverulent nature, even when not subjected to
any cominuting operation," and is "a particularly valuable component for use in explosive compositions where a low density or ‘high stick count’
is desired." |
[Edited on 14-4-2011 by Blasty]
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Blasty
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Found the actual patent for the mixed nitrostarch-nitrosucrose explosive, which gives a bit more details than Davis:
http://www.google.com/patents/about?id=gzNLAAAAEBAJ&dq=w...
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Vikascoder
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What is the detonation velocity of sucrose octanitrate. Can it be used as a booster charge in blasting caps.
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