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CyrusGrey
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Paint creation thread
While lurking around on the fourms here I have seen many threads about isolating chemicals from paints, but never any about making them. Since my art
skills only extends to drawing diagrams of apperatus and chemical structures, my painting skills are abysmal, but thats OK. I have made four simple
linseed oil based paints here:
Some powdered sulfur was ball milled for about a day. After mixing this with linseed oil I got a pale yellow goop. This was probably never used as a
paint as the color is really not that strong.
I took four graphite welding rods, stripped the copper, broke them up and ball milled them (This was very annoying to ball mill. It would grind up the
small pieces into a very fine powder and not break up anything larger than 2mm in diameter. It took me two weeks to mill.) This made a nice very black
paint.
The third one is ferric oxide. I belive this was called Venetian Red.
For the last I took copper carbonate and dissolved it into acetic acid. You might be able to tell from the picture that it is a bit gritty, since I
didn't make enough to mill.
I made some zinc oxide also, but when I tried to mill this it turned grey (Didn't clean my mill out well enough after the graphite).
I plan to try Prussian Blue soon, also I will try Han Purple and Egyptian Blue (BaCuSi2O6 and CaCuSi4O10) if I can find a kiln or something I can use.
Does anyone know of other interesting pigments that can be added to linseed oil? I would rather not make fine powders of heavy metal salts though.
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12AX7
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I'm going to make copper phthalocyanine for my organic chemistry "project" this semester. Awfully simple, but damned if it isn't BLUE.
On heating or aging, that sulfur mixture ought to do some really, really ugly things, chemically. It might even turn rubbery or crusty, due to sulfur
crosslinking the linseed oil. Remember linseed oil is a drying oil because of its high degree of unsaturation which makes it prone to forming solid
polymeric resins.
Tim
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CyrusGrey
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By really ugly do you mean release big clouds of hydrogen sulfide? I thought that would only happen when it was heated.
Think I should wash the oil out of it with acetone and dispose of it? It has been sitting in my garage for a couple weeks with no smell of H2S. Well,
its not a very good paint anyway.
Post back and tell us how your copper phthalocyanine turns out. I don't know much about organic synthesis though, just inorganic. Hopefully I can take
some organic chem classes in fall or spring 2009.
[Edited on 15-3-2008 by CyrusGrey]
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microcosmicus
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Also maybe try copper acetylsalicylate. It is used as a colorant for PVC among
other things and there is a thread here by bfesser on how to prepare it:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9920&a...
Quite simple to do even if you have litle or no familiarity in the ways
of organic chemistry.
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12AX7
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CyrusGrey
By really ugly do you mean release big clouds of hydrogen sulfide? I thought that would only happen when it was heated. |
Well, I shouldn't say REALLY ugly, but it should at least end up a sticky or brittle mess. By ugly I should've said something along the lines of
"complex reaction products".
| Quote: | | Post back and tell us how your copper phthalocyanine turns out. I don't know much about organic synthesis though, just inorganic.
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Honestly it's not a very organic-ey chemical, it's extraordinarily stable: it can be sublimed at up to 350C without decomposition. If you have a
phthalate, a nitrogen source (everyone has urea  ) and some copper and maybe an
additional catalyst (boric acid and ammonium molybdate are mentioned), you can make it.
Tim
[Edited on 3-14-2008 by 12AX7]
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not_important
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The iron oxides are interesting pigments, reds, yellows, browns, and blacks, depending on the process used to make them. A trace of manganese will
darken and brown the colour. Most of the natural 'ochers' are mixtures of iron oxide/hydroxide with clays and so on, which lightens them.
Some years ago I bought a batch of surplused chemicals which happened to contain 100 g of arsenic oxide. This got me into making the equivalents of
old natural and synthetic pigments. I made orpiment (As2S3), realgar (AsS), Scheele's green (copper arsenate), Schweinfurt green (copper
aceto-arsenite), Prussian blue, Vivianite (Blue Ochre - hydrated , ferrous phosphate and a bugger to make well), smalt (a potassium based glass
containing cobalt), Egyptian blue (calcium-sodium glass containing cobalt), vermilion/cinnabar (HgS), azurite and malachite (basic copper
carbonates), and messed with the various ochers.
I only made a few grams of each, never made paints from them but seeing how toxic many of them are just sealed them away in glass as samples. Gave
them to a friend a friend, who was doing research on old pigments, a few years back.
There are a few 19th century books that give some detail on pigment manufacturing. They're old enough that there were only a few organic pigments,
and much of those were natural.
here are a few Web sites you might find interesting:
http://www.goldenpaints.com/products/color/heavybody/histpig...
http://jcsparks.com/painted/pigment-chem.html
http://lilinks.com/mara/history.html
http://www.sanders-studios.com/instruction/tutorials/history...
http://www.naturalpigments.com/
http://www.wellesley.edu/Chemistry/Chem&Art/Topics/Pigme...
http://www.winsornewton.com/main.aspx?PageID=307
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YT2095
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you should try some Lead/Chrome and Silver/chrome complexes, they make great Yellow and Red pigments respectively.
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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CyrusGrey
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Thanks for all the info.
My sulfur paint does seem much thicker than the other paints I made. I thought I just mixed too much sulfur in but now I'm not so sure.
Interestingly, the copper acetate pigment has turned green as it is drying. I have read that this happens, but I'm not sure why. One of not_importants
texts suggests that its formation of 'copper resinates' though I'm not sure what they mean by resinate. The copper salt of the fatty acids in the oil
perhaps?
I'll add copper acetylsalicylate, malachite, ultramarine, and manganese violet to my queue of pigments to try. I might try copper phthalocyanine and
perylene if I can figgure out how to synthesize them from napthalene. The other ones mentioned either require reagents I don't have or are very toxic,
which wouldn't be a good idea since a quality paint would require very fine powders of those chemicals.
I'll post back with pictures as soon as I can synthesize another pigment.
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chloric1
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metal phosphates
copper phosphate will be a sky blue and cobalt phosphate is violet. These are easily precipitated from their chlorides or sulfates.
Fellow molecular manipulator
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Amos
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Just thought I'd upload a picture of my paint pigments so far. At the moment they're only suspended in water without any surfactant, so naturally
they'll look a lot more uniform once I've got some linseed oil.
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zed
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There are books on this topic. I have an interest myself, because oil based house paints are no longer available, in most of The States, adjoining
me. State and Federal, regulations.
Olympic Solid Oil Stain, used to be the best, of the best. Slow drying, long lasting, never blisters or peels......And, it can be refreshed (after
20years or so) by simply painting a fresh coat of boiled linseed oil over it. Just pigment and Linseed oil; the best!
Oh, about Linseed Oil. It doesn't usually come up, but you must use Boiled Linseed Oil, to bind your paints. Raw Linseed Oil, never dries.
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gatosgr
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If you boil it you prepolymerize it so it will take less time to cure, you can use Co,Mg or Zn salts to speed up the drying time.
You can buy a similar paint as alkyd resin from a paint store.
[Edited on 18-11-2015 by gatosgr]
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Bert
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Titanium and/or Aluminum oxides as white pigments, and try just a TINY BIT of lamp black with these for a brilliant, long lasting white paint-
Lamp black is easier than milling graphite, smoke the inside of a porcelain crucible with a low O2 acetylene flame, or flame from burning vegetable
oil. Cover crcible well to exclude air and heat red hot to remove any excess oils, then use.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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gatosgr
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Do you know of any other oils that polymerizes in the presence of air like linseed oil? It's hard to get linseed oil where I'm at right now.
I've found out that sunflower oil is unsaturated and depending on the iodine value it can work like linseed oil.
[Edited on 19-11-2015 by gatosgr]
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ave369
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There is something interesting resulting from a reaction between tannic acid and divalent iron. This results in a black, brown or dark purple pigment
that was used to make ink. Perhaps it can be used for paint as well.
[Edited on 19-11-2015 by ave369]
Smells like ammonia....
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BromicAcid
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Quote: Originally posted by gatosgr  | Do you know of any other oils that polymerizes in the presence of air like linseed oil? It's hard to get linseed oil where I'm at right now.
I've found out that sunflower oil is unsaturated and depending on the iodine value it can work like linseed oil.
[Edited on 19-11-2015 by gatosgr] |
Personally I have only really used linseed and walnut oils but there are quite a few that I have seen mentioned in passing. The website below lists
several oils and their properties, more oils can be found by searching 'drying oils' in your favorite search engine.
http://www.cad-red.com/mt2/oil.html
Raw Drying Oils
Linseed Oil
Poppy seed Oil
Walnuts Oil
Safflawer Oil
Processed Oils
Sun Thickend Oil
Stand Oil
Remember that how good your oil works depends to some extent on the pigment. Some retard and some accelerate 'drying' times.
[Edited on 11/19/2015 by BromicAcid]
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Texium
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| Quote: Originally posted by ave369 | There is something interesting resulting from a reaction between tannic acid and divalent iron. This results in a black, brown or dark purple pigment
that was used to make ink. Perhaps it can be used for paint as well.
[Edited on 19-11-2015 by ave369] |
There's a thread about that somewhere, but I don't know where it went.
I've made it before, and have tried using it as ink and also as paint. If you dry it and allow it to be oxidized to the insoluble ferric version, it
makes a decent paint pigment.
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Hawkguy
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What about reacting Phenol with Iron salt, that usually produces a nice purple. I can do this later and let you guys know if noone has already done
it. If I recall though, it'd smell pretty awful. Also be worth doing some Picric related yellow and oranges, as well as Picramic red and Diazo green.
You can probably see a theme developing.
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Hawkguy
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Also, a Barium Sulfate would make nice white, as well as a red from Cobalt Nitrate.
Actually that would be a terrible idea because of toxicity.
[Edited on 19-11-2015 by Hawkguy]
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zed
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"Do you know of any other oils that polymerizes in the presence of air like linseed oil? It's hard to get linseed oil where I'm at right now.
I've found out that sunflower oil is unsaturated and depending on the iodine value it can work like linseed oil."
Linseed (akaFlaxseed) oil, is the oil of choice around here. Available and not expensive. We buy it by the gallon, at the local hardware stores.
Failing that, for fine painting, Walnut oil is a winner. Not cheap! But, if you have your own tree, you are good to go. Dries fast.
Poppy Seed OIl, has a decent rep, but it is not very available in the US. The Government doesn't want Opium Poppys, to become widely established
here. No Poppies....No Oil.
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cyanureeves
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lead acetate was used as white paint and it is very white and i believe sweet tasting too.one summer i dropped a pc. of lead in vinegar and it did
turn very white but it took forever to make.
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BromicAcid
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| Quote: Originally posted by zed |
Poppy Seed OIl, has a decent rep, but it is not very available in the US. The Government doesn't want Opium Poppys, to become widely established
here. No Poppies....No Oil. |
No problem buying poppy seeds for use in cooking, the art supply store in town sells refined poppy seed oil without any issues for painting. I have
never noticed an issue getting either of these things in the US.
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MeshPL
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Aureolin (potassium hexacobaltinitrite) is quite nice yellow. It can be made without strong heat source.
I think, that what you can make depends mostly on heat sources you have. With good enough, you should be able to make synthetic ultramarine.
I remamber when I attempted to make pigments. ZnO is nice white, prussian blue makes nice, yet dark blue, copper phosphate is sky blue in colour, iron
(III) phosphate is sand coloured, mixed with copper phosphate and prussian blue it produced surprisingly nice grassy, dirty green. Do not try nickel
oxide/phosphate they are weak colorants, go for chromium (III) instead. Copper (II) oxide is black-ish, in smaller amounts it makes brown, not gray. I
tried to make malachite, but failed. Simply percipitating copper in 1 mole Na2CO3 per 2 moles NaOH didn't work for me, it produced blue percipitate,
at least I could turn it into CuO.
[Edited on 20-11-2015 by MeshPL]
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Hawkguy
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There should be a prize for the first person to make Barium Copper Silicate. Pretty cool stuff, one of few only ancient purple pigments, and
apparently interesting to make.
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gatosgr
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For light blue you should try Cu(OH)2.
[Edited on 21-11-2015 by gatosgr]
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