MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
Phenol Toxicity?
I know this has been discussed briefly before but I couldn't find the exact post. I have been using this generic Chloraseptic sore throat spray for
the past few days. I haven't read the directions in years and finally decided to read them. Now the directions say to use more but spit it out
instead of swallowing. Well, I've been swallowing it because that's what I've always done.
How toxic is phenol? Let's say I use 1ml of 1.4% Phenol solution every hour or so, am I slowly dying or what?
I just got nervous about it when I read about how Phenol was highly toxic. If it is indeed the phenol I am tasting (a sweet, medicine like taste)
then it certainly doesn't taste poisonous 
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
Nicodem
Super Moderator
Posts: 4230
Registered: 28-12-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I'm afraid I have to tell you...
...that you are not dying.
Phenol is a nasty stuff if you get it on the skin. It makes the skin fell off. Off course it is also toxic internally, but I think you have to be
worried only for the acute poisonings. I don't think chronic exposure with such low amounts and of such short time or frequency has any detrimental
consequences, or any consequences at all.
|
|
|
DerAlte
National Hazard
Posts: 779
Registered: 14-5-2007
Location: Erehwon
Member Is Offline
Mood: Disgusted
|
|
Moderately toxic.
My reference has LD50 414mg/kg (oral rat), 669mg/kg (skin rat). It is also reckoned to be carcinogenic. Used to be used in antiseptic soaps.
IIRC the stuff in Chlorasceptic is sodium phenate
Regards
Der Alte
|
|
|
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
That's what I was initially concerned with. Now that I think about it, as long as Ph-OH is metabolized at a significant rate then I should have no
problems. I think I estimated (last night) that the total amount of phenol in the container was ~2g. Even if I were to ingest all of that at once, I
doubt I would die. I feel better now.
The MSDS says "Phenol 1.4%". It also says "clear red/green/blue liquid with a characteristic odor of phenol" There appear to be Na+ ions in solution
because of the saccharin sodium but I don't know how sodium phenolate is formed.
OT but you know what seems to work great? Those Vick's Inhalers that are a combination of menthol + freebase l-methamphetamine. They clear up my
nose almost as fast as nasal spray (oxymetazoline HCl?).
EDIT
Although, according to the "Hazardous Substances Data Bank, National Library of Medicine, Bethesda, MD."
| Quote: |
Ingestion of as little as 4.8 g of pure phenol caused death in 10 min.
[NIOSH; Criteria Document: Phenol p.65 (1976) DHEW Pub NIOSH 76-196]**PEER REVIEWED**
|
http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~cZZ74...
[Edited on 14-3-2008 by MagicJigPipe]
Attachment: sodiumphenolate.txt (64kB)
This file has been downloaded 1081 times
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
chemrox
International Hazard
Posts: 2961
Registered: 18-1-2007
Location: UTM
Member Is Offline
Mood: LaGrangian
|
|
toxic phenol... toxic nose spray too
It's the oxymetazoline. The l-meth is there to keep you coming back. You don't want to market a nose spray that keeps your sinuses clear for the
whole day or night do you? The l-meth makes you feel good... just enough to make you squeeze the bottle twice. Otherwise there isn't enough to do
anything for your nose. Isn't the phenol question pretty much a USTFSE? Isn't it what used to be called carbolic acid? It was used to clean
hospitals. I thought Emil Fischer got cancer from sweeping the shit off his table onto his abdomen.
"When you let the dumbasses vote you end up with populism followed by autocracy and getting back is a bitch." Plato (sort of)
|
|
|
microcosmicus
Hazard to Others
Posts: 287
Registered: 31-12-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: spin up
|
|
| Quote: |
The l-meth is there to keep you coming back.
|
WTFF??!!!!???!!
You mean to tell me that all this time while the DEA has been going
out of its way to ban any and all chemicals which could be used to
make the stuff, wrecking amateur chemistry in the process, all the
time a steroisomer of the stuff has been available over the counter
with no restrictions whatsoever even though the law says that
"methamphetamine, its salts, isomers, and salts of isomers" are
controlled substances??
Incredulous, I had a look in the friggin' search engine and found the
following opinion from the North Dakota appeals court:
http://www.court.state.nd.us/court/opinions/870281.htm
A quote from this opinion:
"Erban argued that it was the substance 1-desoxyephedrine itself which was excluded from the schedules by this regulation, not just the Vicks inhaler
which contains a small amount of it. The statutory and regulatory arrangement, however, demonstrates that 21 C.F.R. ยง 1308.22 excluded only the
over-the-counter preparation listed, not it's component which is also listed."
This is completely nuts. I give up.
[Edited on 15-3-2008 by microcosmicus]
|
|
|
YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
|
|
I think This is the thread you`r thinking about : http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=9806&a...
the soap I use is ~2% phenol, it`s quite harmless, I even let my 2.5 year daughter wash her hands with it.
as for the Spray stuff, you would be Very sick throwing up long before you got Close to a toxic dose of Phenol because of the other stuff in it.
a bit like trying to get drunk on 1% alc Beer 
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
|
|
|
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
"The l-meth is there to keep you coming back"
What? l-methamphetamine appears to have no CNS affects. I certainly don't feel the urge to come back. Oxymetazoline and l-meth seem to be almost
equally effective. The inhaler is more convenient (because it's not an annoying liquid) and it has menthol in it which works wonders.
Yes, microcosmicus, that is appalling. I have read the law where they specifically exclude the Vick's inhalers from being scheduled. That must be
why there are no generic l-meth inhalers as they would have to be specifically excluded in the law. I wonder if Vick's had anything to do with
getting them to word it "Vick's Inhalers" instead of "l-meth inhalers".
Although, you have to admit, levo-methamphetamine has no recreational value and (in small quantities) no d-meth creation potential. Yes, you could
oxidize it to phenylacetone and go from there but there's only 50mg in each inhaler! That makes it just as expensive (gram for gram) as "street"
d-meth! And conversion with anything less than 100% yield would be a money losing investment. Maybe that's another reason Vick's was given a
monopoly on the product (to control the price so conversion isn't economically viable).
Anyway, I'm not gonna argue against less regulation.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
|
|
I thought this thread was about Phenol!?
can we PLEASE keep the drug garbage out of it, it seems to be creeping in almost Everywhere recently!
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
|
|
|
MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
|
|
Phenol's a drug.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
