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TheApplianceOfScience
Harmless
Posts: 2
Registered: 3-3-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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Society's Perception of Our Chemistry Hobby
Hi, I'm a new member and like to kick-off with a post about society's attitudes, ignorance and perception of our hobby.
From my observations and personal experience, the general public lacking decent knowledge of chemistry are rather ignorant; they could see a conical
flask of blue copper sulphate solution and instantly think that it could explode at any moment, or killl everyone with deadly fumes! They view us
(amateur chemists) as socially inept geeks, nerds, drug cooks or b*mb makers! I am studying chemistry at Degree level, and when I tell people about
this, their response is like: "Can you make a chemical b*mb"?, or "have you blown anything up yet?".
My interest in chemistry errs towards pyrotechnics and rocketry, but I also have an interest in natural product chemistry and organic synthesis.
By the way, just out of curiosity, what are the age ranges of our forum members? Do we have any adults among us, as opposed to kids who simply want to
burn pyrotechnic mixtures on the floor?!
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chemkid
Hazard to Others
Posts: 269
Registered: 5-4-2007
Location: Suburban Hell
Member Is Offline
Mood: polarized
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Not every kid is just obsessed with lighting gasoline in any way possible! Yeah, i have done that sort of stuff (never gasoline though), but i mostly
do real chemistry: synthesize things, extractions etc etc.
Chemkid
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BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
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There are a few polls laying around that can give you an idea of the demographic around here. Though some of them are hard to find due to the search
engine (I recommend searching through google, just add site:sciencemadness.org to the end of your search string to return results strictly from this
site.)
What's the average age?
What is your level of eduction?
What sex are you?
Taking the numbers at face value the majority of us here are somewhat well educated males, and we tend to fall into older age brackets than some
people might presume. Of course we only have numbers from the people that have found and decided to vote in the polls so it is far from
comprehensive. There is a thread though containing most of the polls to a point a year or three ago that can help give you similar info, check it out
here:
Polls, do you vote in them?
Regarding your feelings on the public opinion of chemistry, you're preaching to the choir here. Most of us feel the same way though the degree we
feel it ranges from mild annoyance to out and out anger. I don't think there is a dedicated topic to the subject, but we usually get our jibs in here
and there.
Regardless, welcome to the forum.
[Edited on 3/4/2008 by BromicAcid]
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Ozone
International Hazard
Posts: 1269
Registered: 28-7-2005
Location: Good Olde USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Integrated
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Thanks, HBr!
I noticed, just now, that there is no whimsy option in the search engine (perhaps this is intentional). For some reason, despite having been through
these threads previously, I did not think to check forum matters. I knew those threads were here somewhere...
Anyway, yes. There are practitioners of every level represented here. Likewise, they are present at almost every literate age, sex, sect, etc.
Welcome and...
Cheers,
O3
[Edited on 4-3-2008 by Ozone]
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
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UnintentionalChaos
International Hazard
Posts: 1454
Registered: 9-12-2006
Location: Mars
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Mood: Nucleophilic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TheApplianceOfScience
From my observations and personal experience, the general public lacking decent knowledge of chemistry are rather ignorant |
You'll find we complain about this quite often. Not without good reason of course, because it's true.
O3, shouldn't Bromic be HBrO3?
Anyway, welcome to the forum.
-UC
Department of Redundancy Department - Now with paperwork!
'In organic synthesis, we call decomposition products "crap", however this is not a IUPAC approved nomenclature.' -Nicodem
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woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
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Yep, that guy is called HBrO3. But unlike the chemical, he is a good guy 
I myself am 42 years old already, so not every one here is a young boy, doing home chemistry. There are quite a few more members who already are in
their 30's or 40's, some even are older.
All in all, the level of this forum is good, much better than so many other forums, which either attract the typical K3Wl/b0Mz type of persons or just
persons who want assistence with their homework.
Unfortunately, the general public has a negative perception, when it comes to home chemistry (and home science in general). We indeed have to blame
the ignorance and the unrational fear of many people nowadays, due to war on terror, drugs, environmental concern and whatever more.
But... also we can do a lot about it ourselves. If people are doing high-quality expeirmentation, show real scientific interest and not just want
'cool' things, then you see a change of attitude. I have personal experience with that. Even one of the managers of the company where I work (an ICT
company, no chemistry involved) has seen my website and became enthusiastic about this and purchased a C3000 chemistry box for himself and his kids. I
also have given a 'chemical party' for 10,11 year old kids from the school where our children go, and the kids _and their parents_ really liked it.
They all found it a very original activity and really thought it was a good change after all those other kid's parties.
Anyway, TheApplianceOfScience, I hope you'll have a good time over here and also contribute in a positive way to home chemistry.
[Edited on 5-3-08 by woelen]
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YT2095
International Hazard
Posts: 1091
Registered: 31-5-2003
Location: Just left of Europe and down a bit.
Member Is Offline
Mood: within Nominal Parameters
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I tend to find that the people that have come to my Lab (after they`ve finished picking their lower jaw off the floor and stopped saying WOW), are
quite reasonable and I get no such comments.
although most of them seem to be very scared of Moving an Inch from where I tell them to sit, and they seem to get a little more Polite for some
reason?
I find this quite Amusing to be honest, as I`m probably the least intimidating person on the planet and the least likely person on said planet to Harm
anyone!
but since I don`t tell the "General" public, I tend to escape most of the stupid comments (Chemistry is only a Part of what I do), so I`m just YT the
science guy for the most part.
it helps I guess that I don`t LOOK the part, but rather a like an old Hells Angel Biker (I am an ex-biker with hells angel friends oddly enough).
I`ve helped out a Good many people with my knowledge and chems and other equipment, so I really have to say that foe ME, it has had no Negative impact
for our "Hobby" or for me personally.
I Have however overheard conversations about chem in the past and I have introduced myself into the convo without warning and set a few things
straight also, so I know it DOES happen!
but in the main, no problems here, and God willing it will stay as such 
\"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom\" - Death
Twinkies don\'t have a shelf life. They have a half-life! -Caine (a friend of mine)
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quicksilver
International Hazard
Posts: 1820
Registered: 7-9-2005
Location: Inches from the keyboard....
Member Is Offline
Mood: ~-=SWINGS=-~
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The subtlety of negative stereotyping is fantastic. It could be as simple as organic food advertising ("NO Chemicals added") to outright insanity as
in the TV show Breaking Bad. but in general the anti-intellectualism of the Western cultures pervades all media. Being intelligent is looked upon as
being "different" and therefore an outcast. Doing well in school is looked upon as not "being Black" or not being "cool". It's a serious problem that
we embrace a culture of stupidity. Look at what happens to intelligent young girls or women in certain schools. Women are not encouraged to excel in
math and science. they are even told that these are "difficult" subjects.
There are a few folks here who are older than 40! Quite a few have adult children. The hobby takes various forms and gets pretty damn deep in some of
us. There are more labs such are those above than one would ever imagine! I actually think the average age (of consistent contributers) on THIS board
is older than most people think. The students have less time to post!
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The_Davster
A pnictogen
Posts: 2861
Registered: 18-11-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: .
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The age thread is also old, forum demographics change over time, and back in the day the average age was a lot younger than it is now from what I have
seen. In the past few years there have been many new older frequent contributors.
Not much new to say about the ignorance of the masses that has not already been said. It is just not a politically correct hobby.
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Ozone
International Hazard
Posts: 1269
Registered: 28-7-2005
Location: Good Olde USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Integrated
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Whoops!
Sorry about that! HBrO3 it is, I farted out of my brainhole  . My apologies to
that hydro-Bromic acid fellow .
"Students have less time to post"...No doubt, I am in dessertation-mode and I am fortunate if I know what day it is (oxoacids! rats).
Anyway, thanks for the correction with the brainfart (I would fix it, but it has been too long whilst I've had my attention elswhere).
Anyway, welcome again,
O3
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
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benzylchloride1
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 16-3-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pushing the envelope of synthetic chemistry in one's basement
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I am currently writing a paper for my English 1010 class about the decline of amateur science. Several weeks ago, I asked my organic lab professor if
they had any empty solvent bottles around because I needed them for my home labs HPLC system. He acted as though I was a criminal until I told him my
dad was a retired law enforcement officer and he would never allow me to do anything illegal like making drugs. Also people in my town beleive that
you cannot legally own glassware. This is not Texas, but Utah. In Utah you can still buy pure sodium hydroxide and 35% hydrogen peroxide in certain
stores. Its unfortunate when people think your up to no good even if you explain to them that you are synthesizing metal complexes or some mundane
organic chemical like triphenyl methanol. I can buy certain chemicals from the university, currently I am trying to buy 5 grams of molybdeum metal and
they said that they would have to see how "safe it is". I understand that they are concerned about safety, but this is excessive. I once tried to see
if I could order some fumaric acid from a health food store in my town. THe sales cleark said that it would be illegal to do any sort of experiments
with it. He refused to order it for me. Many of these people that are chemophobes in my town have had organic chemistry and are going to medical
school. I am currently the only student in my universities chemistry department that wants to go into chemical research.
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ScienceGeek
Hazard to Others
Posts: 151
Registered: 22-1-2008
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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Wow...that's...excessive alright!
It's because of a system like that that people do make explosives at home and blow their face off, and get great news- coverage!
It's basically a loop of amateur chemistry suppresion.
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MagicJigPipe
International Hazard
Posts: 1554
Registered: 19-9-2007
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suspicious
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I called around to some environmental labs the other day to see if I could obtain their reagent bottles that they THROW AWAY. There were 2 places
that at least lied and said they would call when I could have them. A few flat out refused and the majority asked what I wanted them for and when I
told them the truth they got rude and said basically, "Hell, no" or they weren't allowed and to stop trying because no one would do that for me. One
of them said what I was doing was illegal and another one flat out accused me of making drugs. All this over GLASS BOTTLES.
This may sound crazy but the government has brainwashed these people so much that they think any individual that wants to obtain anything related to
chemistry is up to no good.
I called up a SOLVENT SUPPLIER that supplies solvents to all kinds of businesses including research labs. They no longer carry CHLORINATED SOLVENTS
OF ANY KIND. What the fuck!!?? How can you be so paranoid (environmentally, health-wise, or legally) that you completely remove the possibility for
any buyer to purchase a whole group of compounds!? This is getting absolutely rediculous.
"There must be no barriers to freedom of inquiry ... There is no place for dogma in science. The scientist is free, and must be free to ask any
question, to doubt any assertion, to seek for any evidence, to correct any errors. ... We know that the only way to avoid error is to detect it and
that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. And we know that as long as men are free to ask what they must, free to say what they think,
free to think what they will, freedom can never be lost, and science can never regress." -J. Robert Oppenheimer
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ScienceGeek
Hazard to Others
Posts: 151
Registered: 22-1-2008
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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Save the energy for the all- nighter lab- hours
Sorry to say, though, that there's nothing we can do about it than to find loopholes in the system.
The sorry- ass part of the whole thing is that it's actually a bit understandable! Drug manufacture by amateur chemists has increased exponentially
over the past years, and so has bomb- making. This is no excuse for treating everyone interested in chemistry as shit, though! And there is NO excuse
for this!!
I am fortunate to live in a "small", blip country, but to hear your story about the glassware MagicJigPipe really makes me mad!
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Dave Angel
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 22-3-2005
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0 K
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My memorable experiences with society's perceptions of home science
First a little electronics:
I asked a well known photo developer for my disposable camera (something I bought and own if I'm not mistaken) back after development (which was paid
for) and was lectured on how dangerous it was and told that I can't have it. My protests about my educated nature and experience fell on deaf ears.
Tried this again some years later with a bit more experience and scored two shopping bags of used cameras off a less experienced member of staff. That
wasn't enough of course, so I went back for more and got addressed by an angry, suspicious manager. Apparently, if I didn't have the backing of my
university I wasn't allowed them. His tone and attitude were that of someone accusing me of a most serious crime, though I suspect he was venting on
me his anger with his staff for acting without his permission. Still, it was most uncomfortable.
I tried another, smaller well know chain and got a small bag from them, however as I was about to leave, the guy said (and these were his exact
words): "Just don't build a bomb with them". I stopped seeing the funny side of this some time ago when I realised that society readily perceives any
scientific mind, particularly the independent kind, as having the capability and inclination to make bombs. Should have told him - "Oh but I will!
Mwuhuhahaha". Probably not worth the risk in today's climate though.
Don't worry, I hit the mother load with a more independent developer, using the 'I'm recycling them' technique (well... I am, in a way). He wanted my
name and address but only ended up with a first name. I had to pay (cash) for them, but it was well worth it.
Now chemistry fun:
I bought Spirits of Salts (HCl) from a hardware store and was asked what I wanted it for (how many times do we hear this?) by the cashier. "PCB
etching" was the reply and she gave up.
"Looks like you're going to have fun" I was told when buying sodium chlorate weedkiller as the cashier examined the product's hazard lables. "Since
when has weeding been fun?" I asked.
I have honestly lost count of the number of times I've told any non-chemistry person that my degree is chemistry and got that "blown anything up yet?"
question.
To finish, here's a conversation I had with the head of labs (silent throughout, though he was who I came to see) and one of my lecturers who happened
to be there:
(something like this)
Me: [knock, knock] "Hi HeadOfLabs, may I be permitted to take some of the empty reagent bottles from the bins out back?"
Lecturer: [cutting in, suspicious] "What do you want them for?"
"Storing reagents."
"What reagents?"
"Chemical reagents..."
"Yes, but what chemical reagents?"
"The ones you generally have in a chemistry lab; solvents, acids, bases, organic building blocks etc." [I held back on a 'duh']
"What do you want those for?" [notice that the issue of the bottles is forgotten - even though I'm not asking him to supply me with the contents]
"Experiments." [admittedly I was being a bit difficult myself here, but I could see I wasn't going to win this one, and the lecturer is well know as
an arsehole so I felt he deserved it]
"What experiments?"
"I don't know yet - whatever I fancy at the time. Maybe repeating experiments we do in labs here. I enjoy practical chemistry that much and university
lab time just isn't enough for me..."
He gave up on that argument and went down the route of 'it's not safe to go in the bins because of broken glass hazards and chemical residue'. There's
a potential for injury and compensation claims apparently.
This last example is the most worrying as it's not just some random member of society; not just someone familiar with chemistry; but one who has
studied it, works with it everyday, and is responsible for inspiring interest in the subject in many young minds.
So, getting back to the bottles, I went out back and took them anyway.
It's easier to obtain forgiveness than permission.
[Edited on 18/3/2008 by Dave Angel]
[Edited on 18/3/2008 by Dave Angel]
[Edited on 18/3/2008 by Dave Angel]
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woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
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The more I read about the USA, the more I feel sorrow for you guys. It is all so retarded. All that forbidding of even the most basic reagents and
even electronics and empty glass bottles being suspicious items. This really sucks.
I have other experiences. I actually have quite a few empty reagent bottles with nice thick acid-resistant caps from a local lab. I asked one of the
persons from that lab if he can take some of these glass bottles and he came up with more than 10 of them (2.5 liter, 1 liter, 250 ml and a few 100 ml
bottles). He did clean them for me with acetone though, so that no residue of the original chemical was in the bottles when I received them. I store
my HNO3, H2SO4 and some other more corrosive and volatile liquids in these bottles.
What also is totally alien to me is that people from hardware stores and so on are asking things about what you buy and what you want to do with it.
If a hardware store over here sells 30% HCl for wall-brushing or 97% H2SO4 as drain cleaner and you buy it, then no questions are asked. Of course
not, because you buy it for brushing walls or cleaning drains, nothing more, nothing less. Asking things NEVER happened to me. Of course, if I buy 10
bottles of such stuff then that may look suspicious. Just 1 or 2 bottles? No questions asked. In this way I also purchase toluene, NaOH, acetone,
Ca(OCl)2 and other chlorine-based oxidizers. The only thing I never do is buying all kinds of different chemicals from a hardware store in a single
purchase, that could also make people suspicious.
There is one type of places though in NL where you don't buy chemicals anymore, and that's in a pharmacy. If you go there and ask for sodium
bicarbonate, then they already look at you as if you are going to kill yourself and your family with a most dangerous substance.
We will have to live with this kind of bullshit. Chemistry, electronics, and most other independent science things are scary in the eyes of many
people. Science belongs in a registered lab of a university or big company and not at one's home.
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ScienceGeek
Hazard to Others
Posts: 151
Registered: 22-1-2008
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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I don't know what to say!I'm flabbergasted!
I live in Norway, and no one has ever accused or questioned me in my chemical purchase...
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benzylchloride1
Hazard to Others
Posts: 299
Registered: 16-3-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Pushing the envelope of synthetic chemistry in one's basement
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At least my university does not know that my primary interest is in aromatic compounds. They would go bizzirk if they knew that I synthesized some
nitrobenzene and isolated from the steam distillate some evil m-dinitrobenzene! Of course I have a fume hood, but that makes it even more suspicious
in the eyes of the uninformed. They ask what good could come out of a kid with a gas chromatograph, phase contrast microscope, HPLC system , UV-vis
spectrophotometer and a work in progress; a Perkin- Elmer 467 Infrared spectrophotometer. When you say that in this town, they think you are a
anarchest. The craft store in town stopped selling Lorann almond oil A.K.A. pure benzaldehyde. I had to order it from California. Strange because
California is one of the worst places to obtain chemicals.
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Dave Angel
Hazard to Others
Posts: 128
Registered: 22-3-2005
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0 K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woelen
The more I read about the USA, the more I feel sorrow for you guys. It is all so retarded. All that forbidding of even the most basic reagents and
even electronics and empty glass bottles being suspicious items. This really sucks.
I have other experiences. I actually have quite a few empty reagent bottles with nice thick acid-resistant caps from a local lab. I asked one of the
persons from that lab if he can take some of these glass bottles and he came up with more than 10 of them (2.5 liter, 1 liter, 250 ml and a few 100 ml
bottles). He did clean them for me with acetone though, so that no residue of the original chemical was in the bottles when I received them. I store
my HNO3, H2SO4 and some other more corrosive and volatile liquids in these bottles.
What also is totally alien to me is that people from hardware stores and so on are asking things about what you buy and what you want to do with it.
If a hardware store over here sells 30% HCl for wall-brushing or 97% H2SO4 as drain cleaner and you buy it, then no questions are asked. Of course
not, because you buy it for brushing walls or cleaning drains, nothing more, nothing less. Asking things NEVER happened to me. Of course, if I buy 10
bottles of such stuff then that may look suspicious. Just 1 or 2 bottles? No questions asked. In this way I also purchase toluene, NaOH, acetone,
Ca(OCl)2 and other chlorine-based oxidizers. The only thing I never do is buying all kinds of different chemicals from a hardware store in a single
purchase, that could also make people suspicious. |
I'm in the UK, and it is that bad. I'm glad some parts of the world are a little more tolerant. Lucky you being able to buy toluene off the shelf by
the way. I might be missing it somewhere in the UK stores, but I've never found it over here.
I never buy combinations or large amounts; you're right, it's not a good idea. Things have got easier for me to deal with as I've got older and more
used to handling or pre-empting the questions.
| Quote: | | There is one type of places though in NL where you don't buy chemicals anymore, and that's in a pharmacy. If you go there and ask for sodium
bicarbonate, then they already look at you as if you are going to kill yourself and your family with a most dangerous substance.
|
True over here too; I was once able to aquire copper sulphate and alum from a big chain pharmacy for crystal growing many years ago when I was younger
but they looked confused when I asked again a few years ago. I imagine asking them today would be a bad idea in "post 7/7" UK. In fact, I dare not
order hydrogen peroxide anywhere given its media attention and the public's "vigilance" about it. Even the university has to jump through hoops for it
from what I hear.
| Quote: | | We will have to live with this kind of bullshit. Chemistry, electronics, and most other independent science things are scary in the eyes of many
people. Science belongs in a registered lab of a university or big company and not at one's home. |
It's a shame that seems to be the way people view it - even those within university or industry; I might say especially those people. Still we do live
with it and members here have achieved quite wonderful things in spite of restrictions and public opinion. And I have to admit, it can be a bit of fun
in itself to find those loopholes ScienceGeek mentioned, and getting the reagents and apparatus you want with a bit of planning,
quick thinking and charm.
[Edited on 18/3/2008 by Dave Angel]
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Polverone
Now celebrating 21 years of madness
Posts: 3186
Registered: 19-5-2002
Location: The Sunny Pacific Northwest
Member Is Offline
Mood: Waiting for spring
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I have had highly variable experiences. For example, around here the stores want a copy of your driver's license when buying toluene. But I haven't
been harassed when buying materials. In 2003 I purchased an 80 pound sack of ammonium nitrate from a fertilizer dealer, with cash, and no
identification presented. I guess I look trustworthy! I said up front that I was interested in any non-blended fertilizers they had, because I wanted
materials for chemistry and chemical suppliers charge more for a bottle than they do for a sack. I ended up with enough ammonium nitrate and urea to
last for an extremely long time. They even offered to order other nitrates for me, but I don't do a lot of pyro work so the NH4NO3 can supply all the
nitrates I need in conjunction with metal carbonates and hydroxides.
The same year I was able to get a bunch of free barium, strontium, and lithium carbonates (pottery grade) from my university's ceramics department. I
said up front that I was interested in materials for chemistry, and they actually encouraged me to take all the barium and lithium compounds I wanted
(they wanted to get rid of them due to toxicity concerns). I paid a bit to additionally obtain oxides of iron, chromium, copper, and cobalt.
On the other hand, I had a chemistry instructor who was horrified when I explained that I had previously done one of the activities we were doing in
lab that day (action of chlorine on iodide salt solution to liberate iodine) on my own. I also once had an electric meter reader report me to the
police because I was outside heating materials in a crucible over a gas burner. Having the police question you about what you're doing, even if you're
doing nothing wrong, is very nerve-wracking.
Most of the obstacles I see, apart from space and funding issues, are about regulatory policies rather than suspicious clerks or neighbors. If I could
purchase phosphorus, it would be easy for my neighbors to see that I am not going on a meth binge or attracting drug users or buyers to the
neighborhood. But I can't purchase phosphorus in the first place, so law abiding behavior and good relations with my neighbors don't do anything to
ease restrictions that are ostensibly aimed at illegal activities.
PGP Key and corresponding e-mail address
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joeflsts
Hazard to Others
Posts: 226
Registered: 14-1-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: | Originally posted by woelen
The more I read about the USA, the more I feel sorrow for you guys. It is all so retarded. All that forbidding of even the most basic reagents and
even electronics and empty glass bottles being suspicious items. This really sucks.
I have other experiences. I actually have quite a few empty reagent bottles with nice thick acid-resistant caps from a local lab. I asked one of the
persons from that lab if he can take some of these glass bottles and he came up with more than 10 of them (2.5 liter, 1 liter, 250 ml and a few 100 ml
bottles). He did clean them for me with acetone though, so that no residue of the original chemical was in the bottles when I received them. I store
my HNO3, H2SO4 and some other more corrosive and volatile liquids in these bottles.
What also is totally alien to me is that people from hardware stores and so on are asking things about what you buy and what you want to do with it.
If a hardware store over here sells 30% HCl for wall-brushing or 97% H2SO4 as drain cleaner and you buy it, then no questions are asked. Of course
not, because you buy it for brushing walls or cleaning drains, nothing more, nothing less. Asking things NEVER happened to me. Of course, if I buy 10
bottles of such stuff then that may look suspicious. Just 1 or 2 bottles? No questions asked. In this way I also purchase toluene, NaOH, acetone,
Ca(OCl)2 and other chlorine-based oxidizers. The only thing I never do is buying all kinds of different chemicals from a hardware store in a single
purchase, that could also make people suspicious.
There is one type of places though in NL where you don't buy chemicals anymore, and that's in a pharmacy. If you go there and ask for sodium
bicarbonate, then they already look at you as if you are going to kill yourself and your family with a most dangerous substance.
We will have to live with this kind of bullshit. Chemistry, electronics, and most other independent science things are scary in the eyes of many
people. Science belongs in a registered lab of a university or big company and not at one's home. |
I have been involved in amatuer chemistry in one degree or another since the 1970's. Yes some chemicals are hard to obtain (list 1, chemical weapon
precursors) but to be honest it isn't that hard to enjoy this hobby in the USA.
Much of what you see on this forum is paranoia. In fact I see a lot of knee jerk reactions on this forum.
Joe
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Magpie
lab constructor
Posts: 5939
Registered: 1-11-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Chemistry: the subtle science.
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joeflsts says:
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I have been involved in amatuer chemistry in one degree or another since the 1970's. Yes some chemicals are hard to obtain (list 1, chemical weapon
precursors) but to be honest it isn't that hard to enjoy this hobby in the USA.
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I agree that most chemicals can be bought, made, or extracted in the US. All it takes is a lot of creativity, work, and searching, since the major
supply houses will not sell to individuals. Also if you attempt to get some glassblowing done this may also be denied (as happened to me).
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Much of what you see on this forum is paranoia. In fact I see a lot of knee jerk reactions on this forum.
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Would you stand in front of your window holding a 3 neck flask so that you could get some sunlight to inspect it, with the meter reader or a neighbor
looking on? I don't think it is paranoia to say you would not - it is just good judgement. To deny that (for doing this) you could be unjustly
accused, arrested, and taken to court for having a home lab is not facing reality in the US.
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microcosmicus
Hazard to Others
Posts: 287
Registered: 31-12-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: spin up
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Science belongs in a registered lab of a university or big company and not at one's home.
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Of course, the sad fact is that one is also finding less science in those places as well
due to the same social and political trends. Funding for science is dropping, companies
no longer do as much research as they used to, colleges are downsizing, merging, or
closing science departments and dumbing down science classes. While they do have
access to chemicals which are off-limits to individuals, institutional scientists instead
are burdened with mind-numbing bureaucratic regulation. To illustrate this, allow me
to relate an anecdote from a few years back when I was teaching physics at a
university. During a faculty meeting, the chairman announced the new policies
regarding chemicals which would require all sorts of paperwork to be filled out.
I, along with the rest of the faculty was stunned and wondered how the chemistry
department would possibly operate if they had to spend as much time filling out these
silly forms as actually doing chemistry.
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vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
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Mood: No Mood
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I still find it hard to believe that in the US it's OK to own a fully functioning assault rifle, but that you can get investigated or even
incarcerated for owning a three-necked flask.
IIRC, assault rifles were made to kill and three-necked flasks to synthesize compounds, but I might be wrong.
[Edited on 18-3-2008 by vulture]
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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ScienceGeek
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Posts: 151
Registered: 22-1-2008
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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In the words of Leo Tolstoy:
“Hypocrisy in anything whatever may deceive the cleverest and most penetrating man, but the least wide-awake of children recognizes it, and is
revolted by it, however ingeniously it may be disguised”
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