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joseph6355
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Quote: Originally posted by underground  | | Quote: Originally posted by joseph6355 | Question: Is there a way to estimate the VoD of an explosive at different densities giving the VoD at theoretical density?
Question number 2: Does Ammonium picrate react with metals the same way as picric acid does? |
1) Yes, there are few programmes out there that you can calculate the vod (check my uploaded files)
2) No
[Edited on 22-5-2018 by underground] |
Thank you a lot! 
Regarding ammonium picrate, could it be safely stored in a metal container?
Can I recrystallize it with mineral water without converting some of it into other metal picrates?
Another question...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Mo...
Could Monosodium Glutamate be possibly nitrated?
Apparently it would decarboxylate to y-Aminobutyric_acid (GABA).
[Edited on 22/5/18 by joseph6355]
[Edited on 22/5/18 by joseph6355]
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underground
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I have never work with picrate salts so beter someone who have work with them will answere you question. You can try to store few mg into a metal
container to see if it will react over time.
Glutamate looks that it can be nitrated (OH and NH2 bonds) but HE containing metals usually has low performarmance. Better use your acids for ETN/PENT
in my opinion.
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Bert
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From UXO info:
| Quote: |
Ammonium Picrate is slightly soluble in ethyl alcohol and in cold water; soluble in hot water; and moderately hygroscopic. Moisture reduces explosive
strength and sensitivity to detonation. In the presence of moisture, reacts readily with lead, steel, and nickel plated steel; reacts slightly with
copper plated or zinc plated steel, and bronze. When wet, reacts slowly with iron, lead, and copper to form explosive salts. Reaction with metals is
negligible when dry.
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Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
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2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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joseph6355
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| Quote: Originally posted by underground | I have never work with picrate salts so beter someone who have work with them will answere you question. You can try to store few mg into a metal
container to see if it will react over time.
Glutamate looks that it can be nitrated (OH and NH2 bonds) but HE containing metals usually has low performarmance. Better use your acids for ETN/PENT
in my opinion. |
Thank you!
| Quote: Originally posted by Bert |
From UXO info:
| Quote: |
Ammonium Picrate is slightly soluble in ethyl alcohol and in cold water; soluble in hot water; and moderately hygroscopic. Moisture reduces explosive
strength and sensitivity to detonation. In the presence of moisture, reacts readily with lead, steel, and nickel plated steel; reacts slightly with
copper plated or zinc plated steel, and bronze. When wet, reacts slowly with iron, lead, and copper to form explosive salts. Reaction with metals is
negligible when dry.
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Thank you.
Mineral water usually do not contain any of these metals. The majority of mineral water's minerals are sodium, potassium, calcium, and so on...
Are metal picrates usually too sensitive to friction?
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joseph6355
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For some reason I cannot edit my last post.
Would I be able to prevent picrate formation by adding sulfuric acid to the mineral water and converting the salts to their respective sulfates?
I remember reading something about this. The french used to add a little sulfuric acid to their water in order to melt the DNP/TNP mixture in that
water bath.
Giving that I know the approximate amount of salts that are present in the water, I could add a slight excess of sulfuric acid to sulfonate them.
I suppose that the TNP would dissolve more in that sulfuric acid mixture.
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underground
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I did my 1st ever PETN synthesis with h2so4 (98%)/kno3. The procedure was like ETN synth but i increased the temp to 45 C. It was looking like a got
some good ammount of petn cause the mixture became thick. After i finish the nitration, i poored the mixture into cold water with stirring, the water
turned like milk and with filtration, it passed all through it. Any ideas or advise ?
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MineMan
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Underground your description is vague. Please tell us more about your filtering. What kind of filter did you use. Were there PETN particles finely
suspended that caused this milk?
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underground
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Yea it looks like that. I tried again with a double filter and it works great. It was my 1st synth so i do not know that much about PETN. It is a bit
strange, it looks like Lime when it is wet with water.
[Edited on 13-6-2018 by underground]
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joseph6355
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| Quote: Originally posted by underground | | I did my 1st ever PETN synthesis with h2so4 (98%)/kno3. The procedure was like ETN synth but i increased the temp to 45 C. It was looking like a got
some good ammount of petn cause the mixture became thick. After i finish the nitration, i poored the mixture into cold water with stirring, the water
turned like milk and with filtration, it passed all through it. Any ideas or advise ? |
Wash it with a good amount of water.
Metal sulfates are usually very soluble in water. PETN on the other hand, isn't.
The milky stuff will dilute and the PETN will stay as a solid.
Just make sure to use a very fine filter paper to make sure that your solids stay on it.
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Bert
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Thread Split
16-6-2018 at 00:52 |
Bert
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If you're going to keep it for more than a few days, dissolve the PETN in a water miscible solvent such as acetone, neutralize carefully and
recrystalize. Lots of discussion and information about this here, Rosco pposted a DuPont patent in the thread.
PETN is about as stable as this class of HE gets, but it's not going to be long term stable with ocluded acid- Which PETN will certainly have unless
you have recrystalize it.
[Edited on 6-16-2018 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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underground
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improving straw caps
I tried to detonate about 3.5g of pressed PETN that I made (really powerful, looks much more powerful than ETN with the same amount). I am using HMTD
straws as a cap. I tried 2 charges and i think the second one did not detonate with full power, i noticed that some HMTD burned before detonation, so
i guess the remaining HMTD was not enough to fully detonate the PETN. I am thinking now to improve a bit the straw by a) adding some amount of pressed
ETN at the end of the HMTD straw, b) make a small cone (shaped charge) at the end of the HMTD straw with a pencil, or c) do both a) and b) (add ETN
shaped charge at the end of the HMTD straw). Which one do you think is better ?
[Edited on 16-6-2018 by underground]
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Rocinante
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Using straws (or anything that bends easily) for blasting caps is a certain way to hospital and/or cemetery. Use plastic syringes or even better -
plastic test tubes (like for urine samples) ... at the very least.
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underground
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I am always very careful and i almost never touch it except few seconds before initiation and that with great care. I always transfer it one by one
inside big plastic bags away from my body and each one is less than a gram. I am planing to built an ebw tho with some ETN for initiation.
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Rocinante
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You can never be careful enough. Use better material. Primaries are OK, just as long as you use proper tubes ((i.e. not bendable and one end without
any seals.. like test tubes or pre-made blasting ap cavities (which are sold))). A small bucket filled with gypsum powder works better. You can
detonate 1 g of explosie in 2 kg of powder and you won't hear that much.
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NeonPulse
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Just be aware that Using a plastic straw can create a static electricity charge that could potentially be enough to activate HMTD. This would
obviously be disastrous. I also recall it not being compatible with Aluminium either. A few people have had accidents with HMTD including one
involving a plastic straw I recall reading on the old E&W forum some time ago but I don’t recall the specifics.
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Bert
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HMTD is flat out incompatible with common capsule metals.
If Du Pont their own bad selves couldn't cost effectively make it a safe to handle and effective commercial primary, why do YOU handle this organic
peroxide? Because it is EASY TO MAKE??? Wiping your ass and picking your nose without fingers won't be easy and needing to do it that way would go on
for a long, long time.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Rocinante
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Any primary explosive is dangerous if handled improperly (direct contact with fingers..etc). Also, wet lead azide is incompatible with copper leads,
too. But, of course, avoid HMTD/metal comb, TATP/metal works better (if you can't get anything else). The leads change in color due to re-sublimation
and HCl evolution but in general the BC stays OK for several months (if stored at ~ 15°C).
Look here for basic ideas: https://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Blasting-Cap-...
And.. again.... bitte... forget about straws... already!
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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HAha.....First step: Wiping ass is of course more easily before preparation any primary.....:-) Second step: The wiping ass is very difficult, after
fail at preparation of primary. With restrict count of fingers. But main idea, my opinion is, that if you use copper hexamine perchlorate(CHP), as
primary, your fear will teh past and memories only......I remember my fear well. Many years ago I used 100x HMTD and azides and SADS. I was always
afraid. What if by chance. But with CHP, fear is really past..... ....my
opinion only....
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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underground
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I am going to make an EBW circuit soon. I do not have access to make any other primary that is why i am using HMTD so far.
[Edited on 18-6-2018 by underground]
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roXefeller
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Reading that instructable, it looks very familiar. I think someone on this board developed it. Anyway I like the suggesting to use an extraction
string for removing caps from failed shots. Not so easy for stemmed holes or mud capped shots, so cap reliability is still a necessity for those
shots.
+10 for Bert, easy is short sighted.
Edit: why is hmtd in straws so common as a starting point? Is that a Ragnar Benson or Anarchists Cookbook thing?
[Edited on 18-6-2018 by roXefeller]
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nitro-genes
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Does anyone know the critical diameter of hydrogen/oxygen mixtures? Seeing these HHO torches and welders on YT everywhere, I was wondering if this
could be an easy way to prepare something similar to NONEL, which uses HMX/aluminium dust IIRC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonel). Would be extremely cheap and easy to make and maybe nice for demonstrations as per weight, only very small
amounts of explosive material would be needed.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Interest idea. Because VoD seems a pretty good: https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/3730...
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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mackolol
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I have a question, when I'm distilling liquid of smaller density (higher phase) and higher boiling point then its a steam distillation and it should
go easier. But when I'm distilling liquid of higher density (lower phase) and lower boiling point, is it much harder to distill it off and does it
require higher temp than normal?
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joseph6355
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I was looking for an OTC source for P2O5 and I found a fertilizer that allegedly contains it in its mixture.
The manufacturing process makes me skeptical of recovering any of it though. But I thought that it would be worth talking about it at least.
It is obtained by the fusion (or casting?) procedure of phosphorus, calcium, magnesium, silicon and other micronutrients. The natural phosphate,
enriched with magnesium silicate, is then cast inside an electric furnace at a temperature of 4530 ºF. The incandescent mass is then submited to a
thermal shock with a water jet and then dried, ground and packed.
Guaranteed concentrations of at least:
Phosphorus (P2O5) - 16 %
Calcium (Ca) - 16 %
Magnesium (Mg) - 6,5 %
Sulfur (S) - 6 %
Boron (B) - 0,1 %
Copper (Cu) - 0,05 %
Maganese (Mn) - 0,3 %
Silicon (Si) - 9 %
Zinc (Zn) - 0,55 %
I can't think of any way of separating it out of the mixture of whatever this is. Ideas are welcomed.
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JJay
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That's just the analysis; it's not a good source of phosphorus pentoxide or elemental calcium. I don't think phosphorus pentoxide is available OTC. It
is available to amateurs but can be a little hard to find at times.
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