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Magpie
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43 mm ID paper core
I just measured the ID of a toilet paper roll - it's 43 mm. This would give you about a 115 mm long cylindrical candle. You could cast a
plaster-of-paris plug in the bottom to seal it and center the wick.
As a competitor to plaster-of-paris I like a product called FIXALL in the USA. It is made of "gypsum, starch, wood flour, and limestone."
It is used for patching holes in drywall and sets up fairly hard.
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Tacho
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Many ideas here...
I strongly advise you to do tests, making small candles, like 1cm thick x 3cm tall, to check concepts.
I hope I find time this weekend to do some tests. No promess, though.
axe, have you ever heard of ozone doing the SO2 -> SO3 trick? I never heard it, but you have clearly done more research than me on this. This would
reduce the H2SO4 problem to sulfur and electricity.
Gess I'll post a question on the general chemistry forum.
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Tacho
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GOOGLE IT, STUPID!
Lazy Tacho! Asking people to do the work for you!
Did a google:
http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dolchem/html/comp/so3.html
http://www.rebeccapaton.net/pollution/pages/chemistry.htm
In case your V2O5 catalyst - God forbid!- does not work as expected, don't you think would be nice to try to inject some ozone along with SO2 in
the tube furnace?
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axehandle
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Too.... many.... ideas.... brain.... overload.......
I think I'll go the toilet roll route, or the aluminum can route (but doesn't the inside of those have a very thin layer of plastic?).
As for the ozone idea: Yes, I've considered it. My implementation would be a huge chamber of aluminum with a glass jar containing water at the
bottom. The chamber woukld be filled with SO2, after which I'd inject ozone slowly. Since I do have a high voltage transformer, building an ozone
generator should be simple enough.
But to answer your question Tacho, if the V2O5 catalyst fails, I'll prepare a Pt-on-SiO2 catalyst. The platinum wire I ordered 2 months ago (!)
has STILL not arrived though, tomorrow I'll call the selling company and tell them that unless I get my wire NOW, I'll come over and kill
them all.
I do like the ozone idea though. It doesn't require pre-heating the SO2 to 450C before passing it through the catalyst. That part has me quite
worried.... SO3 at 450C is not something I want leaking out, aiming for my face  .
Any good links to drawings of an O3 generator, Tacho? Hmm, don't those require DC, btw? Then I'll have a hard time finding a full bridge
rectifier capable of handling 9kV at 540W....
The absolutely BEST solution would be to have an O3 generator able to generate O3 at a larger rate than the generation of SO2. Then it would be a
trivial excercise to pump SO2 through an O3 saturated chamber. No huge, nasty temperatures.
As for my progress right now, I've just soft-annealed some copper pipe I'm going to use. Tonight I'm going to finish the combustion
product filter and start casting the endplugs for the candle burner sleeve. All the Al piping is cut to size (did that a couple of hours ago).
Edit: Found this: <i>Also, if you hook a METAL (yes, some freak invented a plastic version too)
"Slinky" stretched out, to one side of an NST and suspend a wire down the
middle you'll get a ton of Ozone and corona.</i>
Very interesting. Might be worth some experimentation.
Edit2: Actually, coming to think of it, shouldn't ozone have ozidising properties so powerful that it would make SO out of sulfur without the
need for combustion? Hmmm. I'll have to build an ozone generator soon.
[Edited on 2004-3-25 by axehandle]
[Edited on 2004-3-25 by axehandle]
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Tacho
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I have built an ozone generator once.
It used a tv's flyback transformer. This is the best way, since the transformer manages to turn the voltage into DC. Besides, if something go
wrong, you will have an unforgetable bolt of pain, but won't die.
My ozone chamber was a box about 5 x 5 x 25 cm, made of ceramic tiles, with a wire passing in it's longer axis. One of the walls was made of
transparent plastic, so I could see the plasma ball effects inside.
The power transistors were always burning out.
Maybe I'll do an improved version one of these days.
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axehandle
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Hmmm. Interesting. Do you have a drawing or picture?
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BromicAcid
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Ozone? You're crazy! Go the chamber acid method, everything is made out of lead, hit the scrapyard and pick up 100 lbs of it and have fun
molding the crap. But where to get the NO?
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axehandle
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Well, historically the NO in the lead chamber process came from adding sodium nitrate to the sulfur, 1 part to 7 parts sulfur. But I'm not going
to build a lead chamber, I want to go 100% contact method.
Here's my 1st attempt at a sulfur candle. I used the thickest available whick. It's not looking good. The whick burnt to disinegration
before the sulfur had melted enough to permeate the whick:
My next "candle" will use a rockwool "staff" the size of the candle, loosely packed, as the whick, surrounded by an aluminum mesh
to avoid having the rockwool bending down on itself as the candle is consumed. That will also increase the burn rate as the area burning will be the
cross section of the candle.
Edit: Btw, what's crazy about using ozone?
Edit2: Oh crap. It's 04:14 PM now. Time to hit the bed.
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
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Tacho
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Boy, your room must smell like hell. Literally.
Let's be optimists: at least you molded the sulfur candle!
May I suggest another design for the candle: a small can, shorter than wide, like a Nivea cream can or Vicki-vaporub can (I'm sure those are the
same all over the planet). About 5cm diameter. The rock wool as a thick wick in the center. The idea is not having the burning sulfur dripping on the
side of the candle.
Hope this helps:
.|........|.|.........|
.|........|.|.........|
.|________|
Just an idea, easy to test.
About ozone: No, I don't have any pictures.
The ceramic tiles were used because I noticed that when my HV generator was tested on the floor, the loose HV cable would produce this beautifull
fuzzy haze of sparks on the floor tiles with a strong smell of ozone.
Since no other configuration would produce such a strong smell, I made my "floor in a box" tube. The tile box had grounded Al foil around
it to improve discharge. The plastic window was for aesthetic reasons: the corona was visible and plasma ball like (little slow moving lightnings) Not
fantastic, but interesting. I'm human.
This is a sketch:
----------------------------------
----------------------------------Tile
-> air flow -->
----------------------------------wire
-> air flow -->
----------------------------------Tile
----------------------------------
Cross section, about 6x6cm:
------------------
------------------Tile
||....................||
||....................||
||........o..........||wire inside, window
||....................||
||....................||
-------------------Tile
-------------------
Bromic acid, why ozone would be crazy? It's easy to make and relatively safe. Do you know something we don't?
[Edited on 26-3-2004 by Tacho]
[Edited on 26-3-2004 by Tacho]
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axehandle
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Burner design revisited. Again.
How about this? No candle at all, just a massive cylinder of rockwool impregnated with molten sulfur. Only problem remaining is a better ignition
system. A ceramic staff with an embedded heating coil, capable of being heated until it's glowing, perhaps?
Edit: BTW, I've ordered about 200 meters of 0.5mm Kanthal D NiCr wire for the exhaust heater. It will arrive on Monday. I'm getting
somewhere!
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
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Tacho
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I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work, although I don't like the "lots of rock wool" as a wick, can't say why,
just don't fell right. As the sulfur burn, won't the rock wool kind of clog the tube?
You would have to pump air in the can, obviously.
Does sulfur react with red hot NiCr wire? I would be surprised, since I tryied hard to make sulfur react with zinc, without sucess.
Edit1 : Lead plug and cast aluminum: I foresee trouble here. Why don't you do like everybody else and go to a plumber's supply shop where
you can find all sorts of copper tubes and connections like plugs, threaded (screw like) caps etc.
Cutting copper tubes with a proper tool is very clean and easy. Soldering with a blowtorch is easier than casting Al. You can solder the thin Cu tubes
through a cap.
[Edited on 26-3-2004 by Tacho]
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axehandle
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Gak! You couldn't make sulfur react with zinc??? If they are both in powdered form, the mixture can be used as a rocket fuel. It was quite
popular in the 1950:s.
I doubt NiCr wire would stand up to prolonged contact with the molten, burning sulfur. But that's only a problem if I intend to re-use the
coil.... One could use a new small coil every time, coming to think of it. But then there's the problem of how to connect it....
I have a new solution. Before connecting the outlet to the heater, one simply heats a small piece of iron with a propane torch until it glows white,
then one grabs it with thongs and drops it down the outlet pipe. That should ignite the little bugger.
Edit: Missed the lead and Al part. Well, I don't want to spend a fortune on couplers when I already have a ton of Al and copper pipe, as well as
a metal melting furnace. Casting Al is a non-problem, my furnace can melt brass.
Edit2: And Al is one of the few materials resistant to sulfur at all temperatures (below the Al:s MP ofcourse....) 
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
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Tacho
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| Quote: | Originally posted by axehandle
Gak! You couldn't make sulfur react with zinc??? If they are both in powdered form, the mixture can be used as a rocket fuel. It was quite
popular in the 1950:s.
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Really? I'm surprised. Well, I didn't set fire to it, just heated them in a closed crucibe trying to make phosphorecent ZnS. Now I think
I'm glad I failed.
| Quote: |
I doubt NiCr wire would stand up to prolonged contact with the molten, burning sulfur. But that's only a problem if I intend to re-use the
coil.... One could use a new small coil every time, coming to think of it. But then there's the problem of how to connect it....
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Hot sulfur is that reactive? Ya don't say... Living and learning.
Well, a try with a short piece of NiCr wire won't hurt...
| Quote: |
I have a new solution. Before connecting the outlet to the heater, one simply heats a small piece of iron with a propane torch until it glows white,
then one grabs it with thongs and drops it down the outlet pipe. That should ignite the little bugger.
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Another easy-to-try.
| Quote: |
Edit: Missed the lead and Al part. Well, I don't want to spend a fortune on couplers when I already have a ton of Al and copper pipe, as well as
a metal melting furnace. Casting Al is a non-problem, my furnace can melt brass.
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Ooooh...! THAT's why you don't do it like everybody else!
Forget what I said.
[Edited on 26-3-2004 by Tacho]
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axehandle
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Yup. Having the ability to melt aluminum changes one's view of life quite a bit.
The furnace itself really deserves a section of its own on my home page, but its construction is rather complex (albeit not expensive), and I'm
lazy right now. One of its highlight are that it can be run for hours on a wooden table, after which its outside is only lukewarm, while the interior
is glowing yellow. I apparently came up with the right refractory mix. I don't quite remember the proportions, but it contains perlite, bentonite
clay type W, portland cement and mason's sand. The burner I use IS documented on my home page. The most expensive item in the construction was
the 10kg composite (transparent!) propane tank.
If enough people bug me, I might be persuaded to document the little heat-monster...
EDIT: CURRENT VOTE: 1
Edit: I've been thinking of getting 2 more gas tanks: One O2 and the other ethylene(s) so I can melt iron. Don't know the right material for
the crucible though....
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
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Saerynide
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Document, Document, Document!!! 
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axehandle
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10 votes, then I will document the damned thing. Might even include some videos.
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Geomancer
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Axehandle's description seems much like most of the homemade propane furnaces I've seen on the 'net. While it would be interesting to
see his implementation, so far he's mentioned nothing revolutionary.
Axehandle: I'm sorry you're not able to melt iron. The darn stuff melts hot, my charcoal furnace goes well over 1000C (alas, I can't be
more specific) and doesn't melt steel pipe, though that's an advantage for my application. Are you sure that you're burning with a
nuetral flame? I noticed that you use a secondary air supply, which people say is usually unnecessary for propane.
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Tacho
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Document! Document! Document!
| Quote: | Originally posted by Geomancer
(snip)
Axehandle's description seems much like most of the homemade propane furnaces I've seen on the 'net. While it would be interesting to
see his implementation, so far he's mentioned nothing revolutionary.
(snip)
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Sorry, but I must vehementtly disagree!!
There is a big diference here. Axehandle build it! He made it work! He melts aluminum and brass in it! Let me make it clear: he doesn't just talk
about it, he got his hands dirty and made it! AND
HE IS HERE EVERY DAY!
You can ask him the details, the caveats, what goes wrong first, why this, why that...
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axehandle
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Oh. I'm flattered.
Edit: if it weren't for the fact that I'm incredibly drunk right now, I'd, post some pictures. But I don't melt aluminum while
drunk, it's too dangerous.
Edit: Aaaaah, what the hell, let me find my enormously long network cable...
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
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axehandle
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To the unbelievers.
Heretics. Here:
Explanation: My webcam is an Axis camera server, hence my need for a long network cable.
[Edited on 2004-3-26 by axehandle]
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Tacho
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He is melting aluminum in the middle of the night!
axe, turn everything off, put the furnace in a safe place and go to bed. Good boy!
**********APOLOGIES**************
Sorry everybody about the zinc-sulfur mistake, this is the thread:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1245
It was about CALCIUM sulfide and I used a lot of calcium carbonate and very LITTLE zinc.
Don't play with mercury kids, or you will end up like Tacho.
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axehandle
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Nope, wasn't melting anything, just getting a couple of good shots. My experience tells me that the maximum temp in the furnace was never above
1200C, whick is a suitable temp to make a soufflé. Or was it "carbonizing a soufflé?" I don't remember.
BTW tacho, it's only 01:38 here. Plenty of time before bed time. I'm studying the MP of different metals...
Edit0: Ah, I see what you meant about phosphorencity. Didn't pay attention, sorry.
EDIT: Besides, I'm hardly a "boy" at 29....
[Edited on 2004-3-27 by axehandle]
[Edited on 2004-3-27 by axehandle]
[Edited on 2004-3-27 by axehandle]
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Geomancer
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Pretty. Does it have a lid?
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Magpie
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sulfur burning
Axehandle - you are an animal - melting aluminum at 1:30 AM! You put the rest of us to shame with your hyperactivity. You have turned your
apartment into an industrial laboratory! I admire your dedication (fanaticism).
A potentially useful suggestion: my references on producing SO2 state that it is atomized (the liquid, I suppose) before burning. I'm sure
you've considered this but I mention it just to be sure.
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rikkitikkitavi
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the fact that he wrote that he was increadbibly drunk could have something to do with firing up a propane oven at 1:30 am...
talk about hangover...
/rickard
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