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woelen
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I decided not to order this stuff. I can buy 1000 ml of the stuff, but after reading about its toxic properties I decided not to buy it. Too toxic for
home chemistry purposes in my opinion. Quite different from e.g. chlorosulfonic acid and sulfuryl chloride. The latter are toxic, due to their high
corrosiveness, but methyl sulfate seems to be an incredibly potent systemic poison, which can kill you while you do not notice anything. At least
chlorosulfonic acid and sulfuryl chloride are "honest". They clearly tell you that they attack you 
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DavidJR
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Quote: Originally posted by woelen  | | I decided not to order this stuff. I can buy 1000 ml of the stuff, but after reading about its toxic properties I decided not to buy it. Too toxic for
home chemistry purposes in my opinion. Quite different from e.g. chlorosulfonic acid and sulfuryl chloride. The latter are toxic, due to their high
corrosiveness, but methyl sulfate seems to be an incredibly potent systemic poison, which can kill you while you do not notice anything. At least
chlorosulfonic acid and sulfuryl chloride are "honest". They clearly tell you that they attack you |
Yes, dimethyl sulfate is indeed nasty stuff. However I feel that I can handle it safely so long as I take extreme care:
I will wear thick gloves, a respirator, sealing goggles, lab coat, and apron.
I will use my powerful local exhaust ventilation (not a proper fume hood, because I haven't gotten round to building it yet, but at the moment
I have a blower sized for my planned future fume hood and a flexible hose that I can clamp near apparatus as needed).
I will have on hand an ammonia solution (which can destroy dimethyl sulfate rapidly) to quench excess reagent, clean apparatus, and to deal
with a possible spill. In fact, the vapours produced by having some ammonia in an open beaker would also help to neutralize any escaped dimethyl
sulfate vapours.
I will use the material only in closed apparatus using similar techniques to air-free chemistry like cannula transfer (although I will slightly
modify some procedures from the standard air-free techniques, given that my concern is not to avoid contact with air but instead to avoid release of
this highly toxic material)
I did put a fair amount of thought into alternatives (and tried a few) but it seems like dimethyl sulfate is the only workable choice for what I want
to do. Also, I was leaning towards not buying it until I saw that I could get it in a bottle with a septum, but with this I'm satisfied that I can use
it safely.
[Edited on 9-5-2019 by DavidJR]
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woelen
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Indeed, avoidance of release into the air and avoiding exposure is the key to safely using it. That is exactly where my problem is. If I work with
solvents or other smelly chemicals, I always can smell some of it. For that reason I avoid strong systemic poisons. Smelly and corrosive stuff like
ammonia, methylamine, sulphur dioxide, or even chlorine, chlorosulfonic acid and bromine I can work with. If I smell the stuff then I am not yet in
danger, if the stuff begins to itch and causes irritation, then I know that the concentration is too high and I must quit. Working with these
chemicals is like working very carefully with a very sharp knife. It must be handled with respect and sometimes it may even scratch your skin, without
doing real damage, but when it scratches too much or to deeply you feel it and take countermeasures. I like chemicals to be "honest" 
With systemic volatile poisons like strong methylating agents, volatile arsenic compounds, or certain potent carcinogenic organics, I have no such
warning systems. Exposure today may cause adverse health effects after long periods of time, when I already have forgotten my exposure to the reagent.
That is what is most scary of this kind of things. For that reason I simply do not do experiments with them. I am not sufficiently confident that I
can handle these things in a responsible and safe way in my home setting.
When something is not volatile and only is used in aqueous solution (e.g. lead salts, mercury salts), then I sometimes use them, albeit very
sparingly, due to environmental concerns.
My next order is in the post now, 1000 ml of 40% methylamine in water. Yummy smell  , and somewhat corrosive (like ammonia, albeit a little less pungent), but not really toxic. It forms many interesting and colorful transition
metal complexes and it can also be used to form perchlorate salts with nearly perfect oxygen balance (ammonia-based complexes have too much oxygen,
complexes, based on bigger organic molecules have too little oxygen). Nice stuff to experiment with. Very colorful and sometimes a little energetic.
[Edited on 10-5-19 by woelen]
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Herr Haber
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Ewww... Only yummy if you have fond memories of those teen years when girls were discovering intimate hygiene !
I'm waiting for some Cobalt, Molybdenum, Nickel, Manganese, Chromium, Tungsten in several forms: beads, powder, crystals.
All from China so I guess I can start to think about testing while it's on the way.
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DavidJR
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen |
With systemic volatile poisons like strong methylating agents, volatile arsenic compounds, or certain potent carcinogenic organics, I have no such
warning systems. Exposure today may cause adverse health effects after long periods of time, when I already have forgotten my exposure to the reagent.
That is what is most scary of this kind of things. For that reason I simply do not do experiments with them. I am not sufficiently confident that I
can handle these things in a responsible and safe way in my home setting.
|
Yeah, it is certainly a worry. However at least with dimethyl sulphate, it isn't a cumulative poison like heavy metals, so repeated exposure to
sub-toxic levels won't produce toxic effects as such. Of course it's highly carcinogenic (I imagine because it methylates DNA?) and repeated low-level
exposure will still proportionally increase cancer risk. Personally - I am much more concerned with dealing with the acute toxicity of dimethyl
sulphate - in doing that I will also be reducing the risk of chronic effects (cancer) to what I consider to be acceptable levels, taking into
consideration that this will be an occasional thing, not something I use every weekend.
That said, the acute toxicity of dimethyl sulphate is bad too.
I've read about a case of poisoning, involving the spill of 125ml of an unknown liquid which turned out to be dimethyl sulphate. Nine people suffered
symptoms of exposure to the vapours, of varying severity. Most concerning is the effects of ocular exposure to the vapours. However, all patients
recovered fully. Apparently there was no direct skin contact with the liquid.
(See http://sci-hub.tw/https://emj.bmj.com/content/22/12/878)
However, the people involved weren't using the PPE or engineering controls that I plan to use to control the hazard, and they remained in the vicinity
of the spill for some time rather than evacuating. In my usage, pretty much the worst case scenario would be a spill of the entire 100ml (which, given
the fact that it's in a septum bottle, is only likely to happen if the bottle itself is dropped/smashed). In this scenario, I would apply liberal
amounts of ammonia solution and adsorbent, leave the area (with the ventilation running), carefully remove PPE/clothing and shower if necessary.
Hopefully in this case the use of the PPE will be enough to avoid poisoning.
| Quote: Originally posted by woelen |
When something is not volatile and only is used in aqueous solution (e.g. lead salts, mercury salts), then I sometimes use them, albeit very
sparingly, due to environmental concerns.
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Well, I guess one of the good things about things like dimethyl sulphate is that they can easily be converted to totally harmless materials for
disposal. Mercury, on the other hand, will always be toxic and polluting to some degree, no matter what you do to it.
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RedDwarf
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | Although I've just got rid of my liquids prior to migrating,
I could not resist buying this
£6 OTC, cash, no questions asked.
The liquid is red rather than the usual brown,
it chars tissue paper but more slowly than 96% acid,
a quick density measurement indicates about 92% w/w.
I'll try to use it up in the next few weeks.
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Was this in a chain or a corner store?
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mayko
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one of the profs down the hall is retiring, and offered up a bunch of equipment and chemicals for grabs. this .... has been the most incredible score
to date. Highlights include:
* various amino acids
* various stains & dyes
* hundreds of grams of cesium chloride
* a few hundred grams of sodium fluoride
* ~1L chloroform
* ~ 500 mL nitric acid
* sodium azide 
* Sodium cacodylate
* ~500 mL 70% perchloric acid
something I did NOT touch was the rusty, paint can sized tin labeled DIMETHYL SULFATE
also:
* an 'out of service' geiger counter
* an electrophoresis power supply
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
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mayko
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at the Really Free Market, picked up some ammonium nitrate in the form of instant perineal cold packs!
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
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Sulaiman
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| Quote: Originally posted by RedDwarf | | Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | Although I've just got rid of my liquids prior to migrating,
I could not resist buying this
£6 OTC, cash, no questions asked.
The liquid is red rather than the usual brown,
it chars tissue paper but more slowly than 96% acid,
a quick density measurement indicates about 92% w/w.
I'll try to use it up in the next few weeks.
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Was this in a chain or a corner store? |
It is an independant 'corner store'
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Herr Haber
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5 liters DCM (30Euros), a bunch of other solvents, plasicizers and tech grade easy to find chemicals (ZnO, CuSO4 etc).
Seller even had 10 liters barrels of DCM but that's a lot even for all the extractions I could imagine.
Seller also had Borax, Copper sulphate, oxalic acid, citric acid and a lot others.
It was a store specialized in everything related to skateboarding, surfing, windsurfing and all kind of sports that use resins and fibers by the ton.
I never thought interwoven carbon fibers & dyed Kevlar could look sooo good !
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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mayko
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100g each of hydroquinone and potassium thiocyanate
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
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woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8012
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
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I purchased dimethylether, 500 ml in a pressurized can. It is on OTC product, sold for the purpose of extracting THC from weed.
https://www.cityplants.nl/dexso-d-m-e-500ml?utm_source=googl...
Most sources are Dutch, but here is an international source: https://www.biotops.biz/en/growshop/hash-and-oil-extraction/...
It also can be found on eBay, but it is much more expensive on eBay.
I will use it for chemistry experiments. It easily can be taken from the bottle by putting a little soft plastic tube over the nozzle of the bottle
and gently pressing it, while keeping the bottle upright so that it only escapes as gas.
Dimethyl ether is safe on storage. It is in pressurized bottle, so no oxygen can mix with the ether and besides that, I remember having read once that
dimethyl ether is not oxidized by oxygen from air to peroxides. The only disadvantage is that it is a gas, so handling is more difficult. The gas is
EXTREMELY flammable, but otherwise harmless.
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DavidJR
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | | Slightly scary one on order now- 100ml of dimethyl sulphate. I paid a little extra to get it in a Sure/Seal septum bottle because this will facilitate
safer handling. |
I never actually ended up receiving this, unfortunately. Refer Scientific, the Sigma Aldrich reseller I was using, never fulfilled the whole order or
any of a subsequent order and stopped replying to my emails. Fortunately I paid by paypal....
I was not expecting this at all given that I had several previous orders with no problems.
However, this means I am back to the plebeian world of not being able to order from Sigma. Oh well, it was good while it lasted.
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teodor
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Tin (II) chloride. For study of wet chemistry of tin purpose.
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woelen
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Keep it in a very well sealed container. Tin(II) chloride is hygroscopic, hydrolyses very easily, and also is easily oxidized by oxygen from air to
tin(IV). If it is not stored properly it quickly becomes impure and solutions, even in hydrochloric acid, become turbid.
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teodor
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Thank you woelen. So, I plan to use this bottle (from Action). Hope it is well sealed for the purpose.
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teodor
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The book and the chemicals arrived the same day.
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woelen
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I ordered the compound (dien), a.k.a. diethylene triamine, NH2CH2CH2NHCH2CH2NH2. It is an extension of (en), ethylene diamine. One of my suppliers has
added this to the list of hobby chemicals for private users. I now can obtain this compound for a reasonable price (appr. EUR 35 for 500 ml of the
pure compound). I also was tempted to buy a 60% solution of (trien), triethylene tetramine, but this is too expensive (EUR 50 for 500 ml). Maybe
something for the near future.
This new chemicals opens up the option of experimenting with a new set of complexes.
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MadHatter
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Chemical Order
Last order: NH4NO3 and KClO3.
Expecting it within the next week.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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Tellurium
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Right after the christmas bonus money from my job came I did a great investment
Stuff that came yesterday:
Magnesium metal powder reagent grade
Zinc Oxide
Hydrazine hydrate 40%
Hydroxylamine Hydrochloride
Molecular Sieves 3A
P4O10
Propionic Acid
Cyclohexanol
THF
DCM
Thiourea
Glyoxal 40%
1-Propanol
What should arrive soon:
Mercury
Arsenic
AlCl3
Tellurium powder
Selenous acid
Guanidine hydrochloride
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woelen
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Interesting set of chemicals. Do you have a specific use in mind for propionic acid? I have an 80% solution of this acid, but up to now I did not find
any use for this).
I also see arsenic on your list. Please be careful with that. It easily forms volatile compounds in aqueous chemistry experiments, when reducing
agents are used as well in those experiments. E.g. when you add zinc metal or magnesium metal to an acidic solution, containing As, then you get a lot
of H2, but this also contains a little AsH3!! Be warned!! in conc. HCl you may get AsCl3. I once saw oily drops of this on the surface of conc. HCl.
AsCl3 is quite stable at low pH and from arsenites and arsenous oxide it is formed. AsCl3 is volatile and with the fumes of conc. HCl you also will
have some AsCl3!!
Mercury is another nasty one, but when you make mercury salts, then the risk of getting volatile mercury compounds is low. You must, however, be
careful with aerosols of small droplets of solution when a lot of gas is produced (e.g. when dissolving Hg in HNO3). I take care of that by putting a
paper tissue loosely over a flask or test tube in which the gas is produced. the gas can easily escape, but the droplets are absorbed by the paper
tissue.
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Herr Haber
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Tellurium can also be nasty in its own way
I was wondering what special interest made you chose that nickname and order the element.
I have 2x5 grams ampouled. I know I'd loooooove to make thiol analogues but I'm not sure my city is ready for it.
I know I'm not !
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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arkoma
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Glacial Acetic acid and Sodium Nitrite.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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DavidJR
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Haven't posted here in a while but I've recently bought a pile of stuff.
Already received (various orders over the last 10 months, items listed in no particular order):
5L HPLC grade methanol (already used up)
2.5L HPLC grade isopropanol (already used up)
2.5L HPLC grade mixed hexanes (nearly used up)
2.5L glass distilled acetone (used up)
2.5L HPLC grade acetonitrile (used up)
1L HPLC grade tetrahydrofuran (mostly used)
1L glass distilled diethyl ether
2.5L glass distilled dichloromethane
500ml glass distilled 1,4-dioxane
1L HPLC grade cyclohexane
Big pile of test papers including litmus (red/blue/neutral), universal indicator, and starch/KI
100g prussian blue
250g sodium dodecyl sulphate (LR)
10ml n-Octanal
10ml n-Decanal
250g barium perchlorate
100g sodium paraperiodate
500g potassium acetate (AR)
50g CPPO - bis(2-carbopentyloxy-3,5,6-trichlorophenyl) oxalate
10g cobalt
25g selenous acid
10g pyrene
5g 10% palladium on zinc carbonate
25g triphenylphosphine oxide
25g lead tetraacetate
50g tetraphenylcyclopentadienone
50g biphenyl
50g 1,4-dichlorobenzene
50g 2,4-dinitrochlorobenzene (lost most during a small fire when i tried to recrystallise this from diethyl ether... used the remainder to
prepare 2,4-DNPH/Brady's reagent)
5g decacyclene
100g octadecanoic (stearic) acid
50g N,N'-dicyclohexylcarbodiimide (DCC)
100mg pentacene
10g thymine
25g L-leucine
25g octadecyl iodide
500g ferrocene
250g vanillin
300ml polysorbate 20 (tween 20)
2.5g tantalum chloride
1l glacial acetic acid
500ml methyl ethyl ketone (already used up)
500g potassium persulfate
500g benzophenone
250g hydroxylamine sulfate
250g sodium borohydride
1l benzene
1l hydrazine hydrate 40% (converted some of this to sulfate for safer storage)
250g sodium dichromate
500g anhydrous sodium sulfate
500g urea
10g pepsin
250g barium chloride
10g indium
100g lithium hydroxide
10g titanium sponge
100g sodium
100g cobalt chloride hexahydrate
100g potassium chlorate
50g potassium iodate
10g fluorene
100g potassium bromate
250g nickel chloride hexahydrate
100g disodium EDTA
[I've probably missed some but that's most of them]
Ordered but waiting on:
100ml propanal
100ml butanal
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j_sum1
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That's quite the list there, DJR.
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