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learningChem
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Thanks Blogfast! Maybe I should add that I'm not using a container proper. I put the mix in a small piece of folded paper. That's probably not the
best way to stop oxygen from interfering, I'm guesing.
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by learningChem  | | Thanks Blogfast! Maybe I should add that I'm not using a container proper. I put the mix in a small piece of folded paper. That's probably not the
best way to stop oxygen from interfering, I'm guesing. |
Oxygen won't interfere.
Why not use an old coffee cup or egg cup or similar? The ceramic will not melt (but it will crack). Embed it in some dry sand. That's what I used to
do. Works well.
[Edited on 20-5-2015 by blogfast25]
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Brain&Force
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Anyone have any tips for filing small pieces of hard distilled metal?
Also, will the use of a steel file impart any significant amount of steel contamination to the powder?
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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xfusion44
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force | Anyone have any tips for filing small pieces of hard distilled metal?
Also, will the use of a steel file impart any significant amount of steel contamination to the powder? |
File is made of very hard steel, so I wouldn't say that there will be much, if any contamination.
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Texium
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Would putting damp manganese sulfate in a desiccator with calcium chloride leave me with the anhydrous salt or the monohydrate?
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j_sum1
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Question —ous and —ic
This feels like a real newbie one, but here goes.
Is there any rhyme or reason to the use of the suffixes ic and ous for ions and acids?
Consider
Ferric / ferrous: 3+ and 2+
Cupric / cuprous: 2+ and 1+
Stannic / stannous: 4+ and 2+
Plumbic / plumbous: 4+ and 2+
Mercuric / mercurous: 2+ and 1+
Hydrochloric acid / hypochlorous acid: 1- and 1+ oxidation states for Cl
Sulfuric acid / sulfurous acid: +6 and +4 oxidation states for S
Phosphoric acid / phosphorous acid: +5 and +3 oxidation stated for P
The only commonality I see is that the —ic is a more oxidised state. But then hydrochloric (and the other halides) buck the trend. And in the case
of simple cations, how does the nomenclature stack up when there is more than two predominant oxidation states (as is true of many transition metals)?
While we are at it, is there a rule for —ate and —ite on anions: nitrate, nitrite etc?
And for bicarbonate, bisulfate, bisulfite, bitartrate etc... my simplistic reasoning merely modifies the anion by throwing an extra H+ at it. Is this
the full story however?
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Deathunter88
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | Question —ous and —ic
This feels like a real newbie one, but here goes.
Is there any rhyme or reason to the use of the suffixes ic and ous for ions and acids?
Consider
Ferric / ferrous: 3+ and 2+
Cupric / cuprous: 2+ and 1+
Stannic / stannous: 4+ and 2+
Plumbic / plumbous: 4+ and 2+
Mercuric / mercurous: 2+ and 1+
Hydrochloric acid / hypochlorous acid: 1- and 1+ oxidation states for Cl
Sulfuric acid / sulfurous acid: +6 and +4 oxidation states for S
Phosphoric acid / phosphorous acid: +5 and +3 oxidation stated for P
The only commonality I see is that the —ic is a more oxidised state. But then hydrochloric (and the other halides) buck the trend. And in the case
of simple cations, how does the nomenclature stack up when there is more than two predominant oxidation states (as is true of many transition metals)?
While we are at it, is there a rule for —ate and —ite on anions: nitrate, nitrite etc?
And for bicarbonate, bisulfate, bisulfite, bitartrate etc... my simplistic reasoning merely modifies the anion by throwing an extra H+ at it. Is this
the full story however? |
Here is a crash course video on nomenclature, might give some insights to your question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7wavimfNFE
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byko3y
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Perchloric/ Chloric / Chlorous / Hypochlorous acid: +7, +5, +3, +1 for Cl.
Nitric / Nitrous acid: +5 and +3 for N.
per-ate or di-ate / -ate / -ite / hypo-ite / -ide
per-ic or di-ic / -ic / -ous / hypo-ous
permanganate, manganate.
persulfate, sulfate, dithionate, sulfite, dithionite, silfide.
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gdflp
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | Question —ous and —ic
This feels like a real newbie one, but here goes.
Is there any rhyme or reason to the use of the suffixes ic and ous for ions and acids?
Consider
Ferric / ferrous: 3+ and 2+
Cupric / cuprous: 2+ and 1+
Stannic / stannous: 4+ and 2+
Plumbic / plumbous: 4+ and 2+
Mercuric / mercurous: 2+ and 1+
Hydrochloric acid / hypochlorous acid: 1- and 1+ oxidation states for Cl
Sulfuric acid / sulfurous acid: +6 and +4 oxidation states for S
Phosphoric acid / phosphorous acid: +5 and +3 oxidation stated for P
The only commonality I see is that the —ic is a more oxidised state. But then hydrochloric (and the other halides) buck the trend. And in the case
of simple cations, how does the nomenclature stack up when there is more than two predominant oxidation states (as is true of many transition metals)?
While we are at it, is there a rule for —ate and —ite on anions: nitrate, nitrite etc?
And for bicarbonate, bisulfate, bisulfite, bitartrate etc... my simplistic reasoning merely modifies the anion by throwing an extra H+ at it. Is this
the full story however? |
Essentially, yes, ions and acids ending in -ic contain a central atom which is at a higher oxidation state than those containing the -ous suffix.
This naming convention only holds for oxoacids, as you have already noticed. The naming trend proceeds as follows, hypo---ous acids are less oxidized
than -ous acids, which are less oxidized than -ic acids, which are less oxidized than a per---ic acids. I believe that the name for each ion is
determined by assigning the per---ic acid to the highest oxidation state, but I am unsure. The naming convention is separate from acids which contain
solely hydrogen and another element(or a pseudohalogen such as cyanide or azide) such as HCl, HBr, H2S etc. In this case, to distinguish
the acid from oxyacids, the prefix hydro- is used and all acids which have this prefix will have the suffix -ic.
In regards to ions, those with an -ic ending are simply in a higher oxidation state than those with an -ous ending. These are considered archaic
names and have had the suffixes appended with no true rhyme or reason other than the common oxidation states of the element in question, these need to
be memorized since there is no rule to determine them. Even though they're considered to be archaic, they are still used quite frequently in some
cases(I prefer them since they're easier to type than IUPAC names such as iron(II) and iron(III)). And yes, anions with a bi- prefix simply have an
additional
acidic hydrogen from a partial deprotonation of a multiprotic acid.
In regards to your -ate, -ite question, this corresponds directly to the name of the acid. A per---ic acid will be a per---ate, an -ic acid will be
an -ate, an -ous acid will be an -ite, and a hypo---ous acid will be a hypo---ite. A hydro---ic acid will be an -ide.
[Edited on 5-26-2015 by gdflp]
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j_sum1
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Thanks gdflp (and others.) That is a clear, concise answer. Nice to know I was half wsy there.
I will revisit the table I drew up a couple of days ago to help me memorise the dozen or more sulfur-contaning anions and their various names.
(Metabisulfite and two persulfates to go thanks.) Armed with a somewhat systematic framework it might make more sense.
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xfusion44
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Does potassium nitrite really explode at 537C? But it also decomposes at 440C?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Except with alchemical or nuclear transmutation...
If the sulfate is soluble simply add one equivalent of H2SO4 to get the hydrogenosulfate and then add BaCl2 solution...
BaSO4 will precipitate and leave you with the hydrochloride or chloride.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | Would putting damp manganese sulfate in a desiccator with calcium chloride leave me with the anhydrous salt or the monohydrate?
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What Mn sulfate? II, III, IV
If it can be dehydrated to anhydrous in the open cold dry air, then it will aswel in a dessicator with CaCl2 what simply provide almost dry air in the
closed container. Otherwise it will remain with cristalization water (mono or more hydrate).
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Uric acid and calcium salt.
Calcium oxalate.
Magnesium ammonium phosphate (struvite).
All 3 responsible of urinary calculi (urinary stones).
I see your problem  ...and yes... very painfull...
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Loptr
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Does anyone have a reference procedure for a halide swap of an acyl chloride to form a acyl bromide?
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Metacelsus
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You mean like a Finkelstein reaction?
The reaction procedure will depend on the substrate, but it's essentially a matter of finding a solvent which dissolves a bromide but not a chloride.
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Loptr
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| Quote: Originally posted by Cheddite Cheese | You mean like a Finkelstein reaction?
The reaction procedure will depend on the substrate, but it's essentially a matter of finding a solvent which dissolves a bromide but not a chloride.
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That is actually the reaction I had in mind, but couldn't recall the name of it. I also didn't know if it had applicability with acyl halides, or
acetyl chloride in my particular case.
Now that you have given me the name of the reaction, I will go do some reading on the mechanism.
Thank you!
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j_sum1
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Chelated Magnesium?
There exists at my place some magnesium dietary supplements. (Why? Don't ask.) On the box it says that it is chelated. To what purpose? Mg2+ is pretty
bioavailable and doesn' t have any real tricky chemistry to my knowledge. Why wrap it up in a complex?
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DraconicAcid
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It's chelated to make it sound more nutritious.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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blogfast25
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That won't work with chemophobes! 
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DraconicAcid
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Yes, but the chemophobes aren't buying magnesium supplements, they're buying St. John's Wort and Oil of Harmony.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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blogfast25
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Does it work? If so, can they put some in the water?
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DraconicAcid
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Actually, that's just an alternate name for olive oil. But the people buying it don't know that.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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blogfast25
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For all their banging on about 'Big Bad Pharma', honesty is in very short supply on the 'alter-med' scene.
It might be goat's wool they're trying to pull over people's eyes but it's still wool.
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The Volatile Chemist
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It's worked wonders on my band! We all play well together now! 
For all those in-adept in humor, I'm kidding.
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