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triphenylphosphineoxide
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For people who want to try the real old school way.
Take a huge pile of manure, mix with CaO.
Urinate on this frequently
Collect aqueous solution and reapply for twelve months.
After twelve months take the outer two inches and wash with water.
Evaporate- discard first ppt Solution is now mostly Ca(NO3)2.
To this solution add K2CO3 - CaCO3 will ppt.
I am currently trying this, will give results in 12 months
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not_important
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One trad method, used where there was a fairly consistent prevaling wind, was to make windrows. Fresh offering were placed on one face, the other face
was being dried by the winds. This resulted in fluids being drawn through the pile, niter crystals would form on the dry face and periodically be
scraped off.
Starting in the later 19th century on up to WW-I, often sewage was 'mined' for ammonia. Slaked lime would be added and the liquid boiled to drive off
the ammonia, which then was collected in water, or in H2SO4 or HCl to form the ammonium salt.
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pots-o-potash
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I've ised Grant's Stump Remover (in prills before and it worked well in KNO3/sugar rocket mixes and made black powder powerful enough to use in
firecrackers (paper football type) which is pretty good considdering I used Grant's sulfur dust (which is only 92% pure) to make it.
Also I remember reading on a product analysis site that Grant's was 98-100% pure (obviously meaning the consumer defininithion of 100% which just
means 99.99+%)
Ibought mine at OSH (orchard supply) for ~$5.00.
FYI Greenlight stump remover comes as a powder not prills and have also seen "Lilly Miller Stump remover and Potassium Nitrate" sold in plastic
reasealable baggies in cardboard boxes. Does anione have any experience whith this?
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Boudreaux
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What's the best/easiest/most efficient way to grind the "prills" into powder?
| Quote: | Originally posted by pots-o-potash
I've ised Grant's Stump Remover (in prills before and it worked well in KNO3/sugar rocket mixes and made black powder powerful enough to use in
firecrackers (paper football type) which is pretty good considdering I used Grant's sulfur dust (which is only 92% pure) to make it.
Also I remember reading on a product analysis site that Grant's was 98-100% pure (obviously meaning the consumer defininithion of 100% which just
means 99.99+%)
Ibought mine at OSH (orchard supply) for ~$5.00.
FYI Greenlight stump remover comes as a powder not prills and have also seen "Lilly Miller Stump remover and Potassium Nitrate" sold in plastic
reasealable baggies in cardboard boxes. Does anione have any experience whith this? |
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Mason_Grand_ANNdrews
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If you want you can get pure KNO3 in small quantities from potassium carbonate and dilute HNO3.
2 HNO3 + K2CO3 -> 2 KNO3 + H2O + CO2
Dissolve 200 g potassium carbonate in 400 ml hot distilled water in a 1000 ml beaker and add 242 ml of 50 % HNO3 in small portions to this.
The solution is than standing for 3 days until crystals of pure KNO3 will precipitate. The water is than vaporised to collect the crystals.
The schoolbook method is when some drops of phenolphtalein solution was added to the K2CO3/H2O mix and HNO3 is added until the indicator will be
clear.
[Edited on 7-8-2006 by Mason_Grand_ANNdrews]
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pots-o-potash
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You can use a coffee grinder to powder the prills, but it won't grind all the peices.
A better method is to ball mill them to a fine powder, or if you only need to powder
alittle (less than 50g or best at around 30g) you could use a mortar and pestle. One
with a fine grinding surface works best. (I use a nice Coor's mortat & pestle I got
off ebay and it's smooth to the touch)
Also, it's best to use a tall mortar symilar to the dementions of a short coffee mug, about as tall as it is wide.(Coor's ones realy are great)
Just crush the prills first by rocking the pestle over them in the mortar then, when there all broken up, grind with the pestle in a circular motion
untill finely powdered.(you may need to scrape to get all the KNO3 out.
(I use the handle of a plastic teaspoon)
My mortar looks like this but the grinding end of the pestle is flatter(it has less of a dome shape) http://cgi.ebay.com/MORTAR-AND-PESTLE-5-DIAMETER-COORS_W0QQi...
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MadHatter
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KNO3
This topic has been covered ad nauseum. The metathesis reaction is the cheapest way
to do it. Nitrates of ammonia(cold packs, fertilizer), calcium(fertilizer), sodium(fertilizer),
and strontium(road flares) can be used in the process because of KNO3's low
solubility at 0C(32F). Yes, HNO3 on K2CO3 works but this is an expensive route. Besides,
HNO3 has many other more important uses.
[Edited on 2006/8/8 by MadHatter]
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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triphenylphosphineoxide
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| Quote: | Originally posted by not_important
One trad method, used where there was a fairly consistent prevaling wind, was to make windrows. Fresh offering were placed on one face, the other face
was being dried by the winds. This resulted in fluids being drawn through the pile, niter crystals would form on the dry face and periodically be
scraped off.
Starting in the later 19th century on up to WW-I, often sewage was 'mined' for ammonia. Slaked lime would be added and the liquid boiled to drive off
the ammonia, which then was collected in water, or in H2SO4 or HCl to form the ammonium salt. |
Excellent I've been experimenting to speed up and reduce losses with traditional method didn't think of wind rows and theres a consistent westerly
here. Slaps self for not thinking of making ammonia this way either. Thankyou, thank you thankyou.
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maniacrobbins
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| Quote: | Originally posted by trinitrotoluene
I had brougt a stump remover called BONIDE Stump-Out. I only brought it because its 40 cents cheaper then the GRANTS stump remover.I decided to test
it so I used the 60/40 smoke mixture. When heated with a stove the mixture woulden't melt. Getting frestrated at that I dumped 30 match heads into it
and lit it, noting happand. So just a moment ago I decided to see what will happan if added to H2SO4. I took 40ml of H2SO4 and added 10 grams of the
stump remever to it. It reacted and gave off nasty HCl gas. What I can understand from that was the stump remover what some sort of a chloride. I'm
not sure what chloride it is, I also tried to do a flame test on it but my results are not conclusive. I will do farther do flame test to see what
chloride it is. |
the Bonide kind doesnt work. Before you buy something, look up the MSDS online.
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not_important
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Good source of sodium pyrosulphite, though.
As to your question about KNO3 product names.
Drug stores should have it labeled potassium nitrate or saltpeter. First aid section, with alum and epsom salts.
Its been some time since I've seen KNO3 as fertilizer, it was labeled as such in the local language, or as saltpeter or local equivalent. The NPK
rating is a giveaway, KNO3 has a rating of 13-0-45 I believe. Anything with a non-zero middle digit is either a phosphate or contains phosphates,
not what you want for this. Ammonium and sodium nitrates would only have N values, can't see NaNO3 being sold as a fertilizer as the sodium would be
bad for plants.
It's just in stump removers that you ran into brand names and had to read the ingredients list.
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UniversalSolvent
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I use this stuff called Hi-Yield Stump Remover. They're little white prills of KNO3 that come in cans, 1.5 pounds each for aroun $3 USD. I
cross-checked it with RogueSci; per my recollection, one of the guys there ran a sample of it through a mass spectrometer, and it's 100% KNO3.
Excellent source; I have about three pounds of said oxidizer in my garage right now. It works very well for black powder, too; I mixed a fairly good
grade of powder using it, a bag labelled "Soil Sulfur" (90% sulfur), some relatively fresh, dry pinecone charcoal, a mortar and pestle, and the
precipitation method. Worked like a dream.
Hi-Yield also sells cans of tiny 100% CuSO4 crystals, labelled "Root Killer". $5 USD for 1.5 pounds.
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woelen
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Over here, I can buy NaNO3 at 99+% purity in bags of 25 kilo, and it is called "chili salpeter". It only contains NaNO3 with intentionally an added
amount of borate (only tenths of percents). This stuff is so pure that it can be applied directly in pyro-mixes. Unfortunately, it is hygroscopic.
Anyway, I purchased a bag of 25 kilo, now I have enough for a lifetime.
So, the statement that NaNO3 would not be sold as fertilizer definitely is not true. Even stronger, NaNO3 can be purchased easily, but I have never
seen a bag of KNO3, being sold as fertilizer, although I'm sure that it is, but not in the shops where I come.
[Edited on 29-8-06 by woelen]
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MadHatter
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NaNO3
I've bough plenty of NaNO3 and Ca(NO3)2 from garden supply shops and the shit
is cheap. Either one mixed in the right proportion with KCl, also from the garden shop,
will produce KNO3 using metathesis and fractional crystallization. If you can't
buy your KNO3, this is a sure-fire way to produce it at less than the price the drugstore
charges. It produces beautiful white shards when properly done.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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gags
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KNO3
ey guys,
do they sell stump remover in australia? i need some KNO3
thanks guys
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vulture
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Perhaps. I can tell you they do not sell idiot or illiteracy removers down under, otherwise you wouldn't be posting here.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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kiknet
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gags
ey guys,
do they sell stump remover in australia? i need some KNO3
thanks guys |
No they don't, I'm pretty sure the only place you will get it is a dedicated fertiliser store.
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jimmyboy
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why is everyone in such a huff over potassium nitrate? can't you just oxidize ammonia gas with heated copper to make a ammonium nitrite solution then
oxidize with sulfuric to get nitrous acid which will decompose into nitric - not very practical i know -- just an idea 
http://www.chem.umn.edu/services/lecturedemo/info/catalysis_...
[Edited on 12-9-2006 by jimmyboy]
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shadowcorp
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| Quote: | Originally posted by pots-o-potash
You can use a coffee grinder to powder the prills, but it won't grind all the peices.
A better method is to ball mill them to a fine powder, or if you only need to powder
alittle (less than 50g or best at around 30g) you could use a mortar and pestle. One
with a fine grinding surface works best. (I use a nice Coor's mortat & pestle I got
off ebay and it's smooth to the touch)
Also, it's best to use a tall mortar symilar to the dementions of a short coffee mug, about as tall as it is wide.(Coor's ones realy are great)
Just crush the prills first by rocking the pestle over them in the mortar then, when there all broken up, grind with the pestle in a circular motion
untill finely powdered.(you may need to scrape to get all the KNO3 out.
(I use the handle of a plastic teaspoon)
My mortar looks like this but the grinding end of the pestle is flatter(it has less of a dome shape) http://cgi.ebay.com/MORTAR-AND-PESTLE-5-DIAMETER-COORS_W0QQi... |
True but there is this lovely little home appliance called the magic bullet and on of it's grinding blades that's suposed to be the one for
coffee beans will actualy powder those little balls that grant's stump remover comes in the form of. As ball mills are expensive this is another good
option and I think it works much better than coffee grinders. Besides it has a lot of other uses around the kitchen so it's worth the money any ways.
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