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ecos
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I will check my laws, I will also give it a try to synthesis KNO3 and make sparklers.
My tests of igniting Thermite or AN/C using metal wool and Al powder failed.
MnO2/Al in ratio 3:1 ------> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYMvP3r2qwM
it seems I have a problem with Al powder but not sure, maybe it is a coarse powder :
you can maximize the picture by clicking on it.
[Edited on 9-3-2015 by ecos]
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Bert
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That is very coarse Al powder for the type of mixtures you are trying to make.
It is possible for an amateur to make pyro grade Al powder or Mg/Al alloys, do you know what a ball mill is?
http://www.rocketsaway.com/pyrotechnics_ball_mill_theory_spo...
http://pyrotechnic.narod.ru/Black_Powder.pdf
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
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Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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ecos
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I just went through youtube and found ways to make black Al powder using Ball Mill
I still have to build it , I am going to make one using PVC as shown here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hgs2MppTug&list=WL&...
The Al powder I stated in previous post was used in AN/AL explosives and i was expecting it work well.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Quote: Originally posted by Bert  | I recall an amateur rocketry hobbyist getting severely burned by a Zinc Sulfur rocket fuel accident. He was carrying a plastic bag of leftover "micro
grain" fuel out to burn it off, and brushed the bag of fuel against a fence as he walked, which he believed drew a static spark through the powder.
His dog was walking with him, the dog got some very scorched fur too. |
At least he knows how to prepare a hot-dog  . Was it a chinese guy  ?
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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ecos
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The resource you provided is very useful , Thx.
the most interesting thing in the ball mill book :
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ecos
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Now I have the full picture of what i should do to get very fine Al powder or "German Al powder".
The missing question now, what is the percent of charcoal I need to add on Al to avoid hazards and mitigate risk ?
Most of the videos I found on internet state 2 spoons  , this is not a technical
info at all !
[Edited on 10-3-2015 by ecos]
The only statement I found in an article
| Quote: |
Carbon – If you are making dark aluminum powder, about 5% carbon (by mass)is added. This helps the powder from becoming hard over time. Graphite (a
formof carbon) can be used along with this to help the powder flow better.
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[Edited on 10-3-2015 by ecos]
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Hennig Brand
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I have made flake aluminum powder several different times in a 4" ball mill and it worked well. It did take a great deal longer than milling black
powder though of course. Buying fine flake aluminum powder can be difficult for many. Supposedly the carbon coats the aluminum and prevents excessive
oxidation during milling and during storage/handling before use. The carbon should also reduce the ignition temperature and increase the ease with
which flame propagates through the fuel (I think).
IIRC I used 5% charcoal by weight, but I can't remember exactly what I was reading at the time that made me go with 5%. I don't imagine that the
exact amount is all that critical, but most of the benefits are probably obtained with a small amount (few percent), also a small amount is better in
the sense that it doesn't adulterate the aluminum powder as much.
"A risk-free world is a very dull world, one from which we are apt to learn little of consequence." -Geerat Vermeij
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ecos
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I tried to search for Balls as a media , I think ceramic balls would need time to find it.
I also couldn't find metal/steal balls in neighborhood(the document recommends 1" or 0.5") but I found this :
is the size of this nut acceptable or I need smaller ones ? I plan to make 6" wide X 8" long PVC Jar. for the mill.
I know that metal/steal might make spark but I found some videos who used the same things : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA94uHqUQvg
I think I need to modify the charge in the mill , The document stated 25% of the volume. I think I need more due to the more space that exist now.
[Edited on 11-3-2015 by ecos]
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Hennig Brand
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For milling aluminum I used 3/8" steel slingshot ammunition (steel balls), of course a mill drum larger than 4" and possibly larger steel balls would
have worked better. For making black powder I used shotgun SSG shot (antimony hardened lead balls).
[Edited on 11-3-2015 by Hennig Brand]
"A risk-free world is a very dull world, one from which we are apt to learn little of consequence." -Geerat Vermeij
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Bert
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As a child, I used several rolls of USA 5 cent coins in a 4" rock polisher drum ("Nickles", made of a Nickel Copper alloy. Yes, we spell the coin's
name wrong.) Worked pretty well, on black powder and various other chemicals. Didn't try it on Aluminum.
[Edited on 11-3-2015 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
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3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
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Microtek
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I found high quality ceramic media on ebay. I recommend looking there, it was quite cheap (so cheap that I bought about 2.5 kg of it even though I had
no actual use for it).
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hyfalcon
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Here's what I use In my ball mills:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alumina-GRINDING-MEDIA-BALLS-1-2-dia...
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ecos
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Ok , it would need some days to build it , Thx all for the info.
Just to understand the concept of AN as oxidizer , Nakka stated his formula as :
A24 : 68% AN , 4% S , 17% Al , 11% binder (Neoprene)
From the balanced equation , 68% of AN would need 15.2% Al.
if this is correct, this mean we have extra Al that still needs Oxygen, I think this would be provided from the binder ! , is my understanding
correct?
but what about Sulfur ?
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Bert
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Aluminum is "oxidized" reasonably well by Sulfur- The Chlorine from the isoprene isn't exactly averse to combing with Al either.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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PHILOU Zrealone
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If the aluminium is activated...then in exces you would also have this equation with H2O overheated vapour:
2 Al + 3 H2O(g) --> Al2O3 + 3 H2(g) + heat
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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ecos
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert | | Aluminum is "oxidized" reasonably well by Sulfur- The Chlorine from the isoprene isn't exactly averse to combing with Al either.
|
I think the reaction between Al and S would be like this :
this reaction would generate a lot of heat.
this mean :
68% AN would oxidize 15.2% Al
4% S would react with 2.2% Al
why don't we think that AN would oxidize S to get SO2 ?!
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ecos
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| Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone | If the aluminium is activated...then in exces you would also have this equation with H2O overheated vapour:
2 Al + 3 H2O(g) --> Al2O3 + 3 H2(g) + heat |
I was thinking about this but when I checked the equations :
I think this would need a lot of Al , I dont know if this is correct or not.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by ecos | | Quote: Originally posted by Bert | | Aluminum is "oxidized" reasonably well by Sulfur- The Chlorine from the isoprene isn't exactly averse to combing with Al either.
|
I think the reaction between Al and S would be like this :
this reaction would generate a lot of heat.
this mean :
68% AN would oxidize 15.2% Al
4% S would react with 2.2% Al
why don't we think that AN would oxidize S to get SO2 ?!
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Welcome to the complexity of stoechiometrics and reaction products .
Of course S and an oxydiser will make SO2 and SO3.
But affinity of Al for O is greater than the affinity of S for O...
Electronegativity/electroposivity potential explain this.
So the reaction is possible but depends on the relative amount of each reactants...and may be statistically low!
Also heat of reaction will favour certain equilibriums and disfarvor others.
If you want 100% accurate reaction products this may involve a lot of maths, physico-chemical calculations.
Usually chemists remains on the general average reaction with major reaction products...yes we work with good aggrement approximations .
Most chemists are lazy 
[Edited on 13-3-2015 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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ecos
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Wow
You shocked me !
So how do pyrotechnicians design the correct percentage? Is it trial and error process?
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Bert
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Stoichiometry and experience gets you into the ball park, then tests and adjustments to fine tune a device's performance. Optimum performance is often
not found precisely at stoichiometric ratios...
Then repeat those tests and adjustments whenever you get a new batch of raw materials. Especially necessary when using natural products (charcoal,
gums, resins, starches & etc.) or changing to a different supplier of oxidizers or metalic fuels. Seemingly small variations in composition of
materials and particle size/shape can have unexpected consequences.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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ecos
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert |
Stoichiometry and experience gets you into the ball park, then tests and adjustments to fine tune a device's performance. Optimum performance is often
not found precisely at stoichiometric ratios...
Then repeat those tests and adjustments whenever you get a new batch of raw materials. Especially necessary when using natural products (charcoal,
gums, resins, starches & etc.) or changing to a different supplier of oxidizers or metalic fuels. Seemingly small variations in composition of
materials and particle size/shape can have unexpected consequences.
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My life became hard now
pfff , I need to read a lot to understand more.
regarding the binder , how would it decompose now ?
Neo has formula : [C4H5Cl ]n
This means it would be decomposed to H2O , CO2 and Cl . This mean we need extra oxygen to supply the binder ! would that make sense ?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Neoprene will decompose into HCl or Cl2 depending on the amount of oxydizer.
And yes inert binder needs extra oxygen to burn what might be good to temper the reaction heat and speed.
Active binder contains oxygen to burn its own fuel and sometimes active binders are explosive/propellants on their own.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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ecos
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| Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone | Neoprene will decompose into HCl or Cl2 depending on the amount of oxydizer.
And yes inert binder needs extra oxygen to burn what might be good to temper the reaction heat and speed.
Active binder contains oxygen to burn its own fuel and sometimes active binders are explosive/propellants on their own. |
Great , That interests me a lot
| Quote: |
Polyvinyl acetate ---> Formula: (C4H6O2)n
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I could find P.V acetate-based contact cement in hardware stores nearby, It has Oxygen rather than Cl. it also has H/C ratio higher than Neoprene.
but I think it doesn't have enough Oxygen !
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ecos
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I found this Page would be useful for others who deal with AN.
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kecskesajt
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Can I make a propellant using AN+Polystyrene?I know it is used in BLU - 82 with Al but that an explosive not a propellant.
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