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hodges
National Hazard
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I think the current policy is good.
I would like this to be a board that I can be proud to post on, and not hesitate to show to my friends. Not that I have anything against drug boards,
but I just don't think this is the place. I don't think pornography should be banned either, and yet if asked whether porn should be allowed here I
would say no as well. There are plenty of other boards out there for either.
On the other hand, if we start saying "well, you can't talk about x because x can be used as a precursor to such and such drug", then it is going to
be pretty limiting, since just about everything falls into that category ultimately. For example, I'm sure that water is used in the synthesis of
almost all drugs, but I would hate to see us not be able to mention water in any of our experiments.
It seems that a lot of the experiments we do are ones that were done for the first time by scientists in the late 1800s. I think we should emulate
these scientists in our discussions. Sometimes they synthesized compounds that they tasted or even ingested to see what the biological effects are.
Yet I'm sure few, if any, of these same scientists made "drugs" for the sake of making drugs. And if they did, they didn't talk about it in their
books.
Hodges
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psychokinetic
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I'd vote no, cause I hardly see any. There's some good stuff relating to illegal psychoactives that relate to amateur chemists without being methods
of mayhem.
For instance the current(ish) one about the shake n bake method for meth - it's not for us to use, it's for us to take note of and talk about -
implications included.
I'm not interested in making any, but it's still good to know about.
Said Hodges: "Yet I'm sure few, if any, of these same scientists made "drugs" for the sake of making drugs"
-Yep. In today's societies, here we have good reason to know what there is that's illegal - because if you make it accidentally and are found with it
- do you think you'll get off because you're a chemist? Unfortunately it's probably more damning than not.
“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found
the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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Vogelzang
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No, as long as the bastardized chemistry is kept off of this forum. Also, the bad thing about drug forums are the political wankers who try to hijack
it. They always chase away the real chemists, since, obviously, chemistry is really a right wing capitalist activity. All the chemists I've ever
known would be considered right wing capitalists among the political hijackers, at least the chemists that were employed. Chemistry takes a lot of
work, which is something the left doesn't like and were never good at.  
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hissingnoise
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And then you come along with your crypto-fascist jerk=off. . .
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Vogelzang
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We all know its true.
Lies lead to this sort of thing.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5384001427276447319...
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watson.fawkes
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I am afraid that neither the "we", the "all", the "know", or the "true" is applicable
in this case.
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gdflp
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It's interesting that the top two threads in beginnings are on extracting ergotamine and distilling piperine. Are there any legitimate uses for
these, or are these just drug cooks we're supporting?
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arkoma
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I have cooked dope. Nowadays it is much much easier to just BUY/BUM it when I get the (now rare) itch.
That being said, I have a test tube full of piperine xtal's. It was a challenging/fun/interesting extraction, and taught me a bit of patience. They
are several months old now, and still just as pretty as the day I finally saw them re-xtallize, and I'm thinking are a good clean product as they are
stable.
Now where did I put that helional synth...............LOL
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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Texium
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Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  | | It's interesting that the top two threads in beginnings are on extracting ergotamine and distilling piperine. Are there any legitimate uses for
these, or are these just drug cooks we're supporting? |
Piperine has a use in drugs? I had no idea.
I was actually planning on extracting it just for the fun of it, but now I'm having second thoughts as I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea...
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macckone
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As a former hive member I voted no but I also
Think the board adequately discourages drug discussion.
Frankly there are drug boards for that.
This forum isn't for drug discussion.
I do wish there was more physics disscussion.
Many physics things like Tesla coils and
Jacob's ladders are mad science personified.
Of course there are astronomy and high voltage
Boards around too. I think we should welcome
Those communities.
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gdflp
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| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | Piperine has a use in drugs? I had no idea.
I was actually planning on extracting it just for the fun of it, but now I'm having second thoughts as I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea...
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Yep, it's a DEA List I chemical.
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arkoma
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| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | [Piperine has a use in drugs? I had no idea.
I was actually planning on extracting it just for the fun of it, but now I'm having second thoughts as I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea...
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Parsley has a "use for drugs" if you are determined enough Apiol
edit--@gdfp--you are incorrect--PIPERIDINE is a list I chemical. Check your facts, sir.
[Edited on 9-21-2014 by arkoma]
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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gdflp
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Oops, I misread it. I apologize. That makes a lot more sense, I always wondered why the alkaloid in peppers was illegal
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Amos
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| Quote: Originally posted by zts16 | | Quote: Originally posted by gdflp | | It's interesting that the top two threads in beginnings are on extracting ergotamine and distilling piperine. Are there any legitimate uses for
these, or are these just drug cooks we're supporting? |
Piperine has a use in drugs? I had no idea.
I was actually planning on extracting it just for the fun of it, but now I'm having second thoughts as I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea...
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While gdflp is referring to piperIDine and not piperine, both of them DO exist in pepper.
[Edited on 9-21-2014 by No Tears Only Dreams Now]
[Edited on 9-21-2014 by No Tears Only Dreams Now]
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jock88
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Isn't salt used to crash things out of solution too when doin some kookin!!
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careysub
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| Quote: Originally posted by gdflp | | It's interesting that the top two threads in beginnings are on extracting ergotamine and distilling piperine. Are there any legitimate uses for
these, or are these just drug cooks we're supporting? |
Piperine is the major flavor component of black pepper. I can see uses for black pepper oil extracts. It is possible to make piperidine from it by
hydrolysis, which in turn is used to make scores of different pharmaceuticals (including a notorious one no longer in medical use - PCP) but going
from that to believing an interest in black pepper oil shows one is a "drug cook" is quite a stretch.
Ergot alkaloids are famously connected with one particular pharmaceutical called Delysid, known as LSD, but beyond that are a very interesting area of
pharmaceutical chemistry (dozens of pharmaceuticals developed with several different applications) and mycology/botany. The distribution of ergot
alkaloids appears to be broader than previously known, and appears to be due to previously unrecognized endogenous mycological symbiotes/parasites.
Work in this area could develop original contributions to the field.
That being said - the particular poster about ergotamine, who appears to know nothing about chemistry, is probably not attempting original research in
the distribution of ergot alkaloids.
But THAT being said - where do we decide on this forum when to join the "war on chemistry"? The number of chemicals - including very common ones of
wide application - being banned in the US, EU and elsewhere for fear they might be used to create unapproved intoxicants, or weapons for terrorists,
is growing by leaps and bounds.
Do we have an obligation to sign on to this campaign?
[My main concern about drug chemistry discussions here are: a) duplication with other forums and b) the poor quality of many such posts; rather than:
"OMG, that might be illegal!"]
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solo
International Hazard
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.....illegal is all relevant, as to the application or popular use, RX drugs are sanctioned to be ok if pharmaceutical companies are synthesising
them, again it's all relevant.....solo
It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub | | [My main concern about drug chemistry discussions here are: a) duplication with other forums and b) the poor quality of many such posts; rather than:
"OMG, that might be illegal!"] |
Indeed. Poor quality/spoonfeed requests please got to z*klet............
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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Bert
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I personally moved three recent (drug precursor?) threads to "beginnings". Because the original poster's requests for information were in no way well
documented or referenced.
I did not move them to "detritus"- Partly due to the quality of member responses.
Similar standards are applied to the other major "hot button issue" forum... Energetic Materials. Reference your source material and/or document your
work. THEN ask for information, critique of your process, member help with some aspect of the subject...
Threads starting with balls out spoon feeding requests such as "How do I make improvised high explosive/profitable illicit drug/obvious precursor" go
to beginnings or detritus.
Respect is earned, show your work.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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gdflp
Super Moderator
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| Quote: Originally posted by careysub |
[My main concern about drug chemistry discussions here are: a) duplication with other forums and b) the poor quality of many such posts; rather than:
"OMG, that might be illegal!"] |
I agree with you. However, if we are helping people synthesize pseudoephedrine(just an example) then we draw more attention from the authorities and
the TLA's. Lots of members(including me) don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about our intentions solely because we are a member of this forum.
On the other hand, I have no problem with helping those trying to synthesize phosphorus, iodine, acetic anhydride etc. (if they aren't asking for
spoon feeding) because these chemicals have many legitimate uses.
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Little_Ghost_again
National Hazard
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I live in a family that dosnt drink or take drugs, I have a problem with the distinction made when talking about drugs. From the few threads I have
read on some of the drug stuff I can see the interesting chemistry of it. I personally will probably never take drugs and probably never drink, I
think each individual should have the freedom of choice to take drugs or drink. I find it completely hypocritical to distinguish between say Cannabis
and alcohol.
For the UK alcohol causes more problems and deaths than all the other drugs put together. The only logical reason that alcohol is legal is purely a
money one, its a far far more dangerous drug than many others. & the same for tobacco another known killer and drain on medical resource, and yet
legal because of the money (tax etc) made from it. Also not talking about making drugs isnt going to stop them being made,better for accurate
information on the making of them than no information and bad batches that kill being made.
I am not pro drug, in fact i think all drugs should be banned including alcohol. Or all drugs should be legal, but having a policy of this you can
have and this you cant dosnt seem to stop anything. So I voted NO because I believe in the freedom of choice.
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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| Quote: Originally posted by gdflp | | On the other hand, I have no problem with helping those trying to synthesize phosphorus, iodine, acetic anhydride etc. (if they aren't asking for
spoon feeding) because these chemicals have many legitimate uses. |
Gee, those are ALL DEA Listed chemicals. ERGO, you MUST be a drug cook. <<< specious logic.
Psuedoephedrine ALSO has a legit use--it happens to be way more effective as a decongestant than that crap phenylephrine that has been foisted off on
the US public.
What gets me is I don't see these objections to Energetics. Those people MUST be terrorists <<< more specious logic.
From here
| Quote: | | Use specious to describe an argument that seems to be good, correct, or logical, but is not so. We live on the earth, therefore the earth must be the
center of the universe has been proven to be a specious theory of the solar system. |
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
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gdflp
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And you're really going to bother making psuedoephedrine when you can walk down to any drug store and buy Sudafed? My point is that many List I
chemicals have no real use in a legitimate home LAB. The few I listed are some that I feel really have place in a home lab and legitimate
experimentation. I have less of a bias against energetics, are terrorists really going to go on sciencemadness to try to learn how to build a bomb??
To be fair, I don't really have an interest in EM.
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
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I was simply pointing out that chemistry is chemistry. No more, no less. 99% of drug cooks I've known,and I've known a few, use coffee pots, garden
hose and rolls of duct tape. They can't be arsed to learn ANYTHING about chemistry.
And who are you, or me, or anyone else for that matter--to define "legit experimentation" in a home lab. I just don't get it, sorry. I'm over 21 and
allegedly "free". I'm not flaming here, simply stating my humble opinion, which before these idiotic "wars" (ya know on drugs and terror) was pretty
much mainstream. Are you familiar with the term "Chilling Effects"?
As far as psuedo goes--ya can't "just buy it"--you MUST show ID, and your name address etc goes in a GOV'T database. It's also an incredible pain in
the ASS to synthesize, not extract, synthesize.
I can walk five minutes from my house, and buy 95% pure ethanol at Fry's grocery without a shred of ID (I have gray hair LOL). It's poisonous,
flammable, yada yada yada.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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gdflp
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I define "legit experimentation" as that with legal intentions. It doesn't matter if you have iodine or phosphorus, if you want to explore chemistry.
If you want to make bombs for malicious reasons or make drugs for profit, obviously this is illegitimate. There is a fine line between the two and,
unfortunately, those who have the power to define it do it wrong IMO.
And I live in the US, I know all about the restrictions in buying Sudafed. But that doesn't stop most of us from buying it. Think about how many
millions of people buy it every day across the country, the TLA's can't watch every person. And each tablet is 30mg, who's going to need more unless
you're making drugs? In that case, you're going to try and synthesize it. This is where my initial point about not helping people on this board make
drug precursors like that, for this reason.
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