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ecos
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why to do guanidine perchlorate if you can do Hydrazonium diperchlorate? at least it is less sensitive.
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Hydrazonium diperchlorate (HP2) is an exceedingly energetic oxidizer. In addition to its exceptional potency, it has certain other advantages which
would make it a desirable oxidizing component in solid propellant compositions. These advantages include high density, high burning rate and
relatively low sensitivity towards initiation by shock. |
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Quote: Originally posted by ecos  | why to do guanidine perchlorate if you can do Hydrazonium diperchlorate? at least it is less sensitive.
| Quote: |
Hydrazonium diperchlorate (HP2) is an exceedingly energetic oxidizer. In addition to its exceptional potency, it has certain other advantages which
would make it a desirable oxidizing component in solid propellant compositions. These advantages include high density, high burning rate and
relatively low sensitivity towards initiation by shock. |
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1°) Hydrolytically unstable (needs high acidity to remain as a dication)...
2°) Very acidic --> corrosive to metals
3°) Easily sets HClO4 free what is bad news regarding the uncompatibilities of that acid with many minerals, metals and organic materials
4°) Overoxygenated, so despite high density, lack of energy output on its own...so VOD will likely be much lower than expected...this is the case of
tetranitromethane, hexanitroethane...quite dense, but moderate VOD (4-6 km/s) when pure....(when mixed with active fuels the VOD goes up a lot)
5°) Pure HDP displays the properties you wrote, but when mixed with fuel, all those benefits are ruined and the propellant will become a sensitive,
unstable detonating material...
Better focus on other molecules like:
1°) H2N-C(=NH)-C(=NH)-NH2 . 2 HClO4 (bisformamidine or oxala(dia)midine diperchlorate)
2°) H2N-C(=NH)-NH-C(=NH)-NH2 .2 HClO4 (biguanidine diperchlorate about as good as RDX)
3°) Cyanoguanidine (di-cyanamide) perchlorate N#C-NH-C(=NH)-NH2 . HClO4
4°) ethylene dihydroxylaminium diperchlorate
N-variant (HO-HN-CH2-CH2-NH-OH) and O-variant (H2N-O-CH2-CH2-O-NH2)
5°) 1,2,3-propantriamine triperchlorate (H2N-CH2-CH(-NH2)-CH2-NH2 . 3 HClO4)
6°) Ethylenedihydrazine diperchlorate (H2N-NH-CH2-CH2-NH-NH2 . 2 HClO4)
7°) Melamine di or triperchlorate
....
The bases of 1°), 2°), 3°), 5°) and 7°) reacted with N2H4 forming amino, diamino, triamino, tetraamino variant of the bases -->
perchlorates...
All those will be denser and more energetic than GP (guanidine perchlorate).
[Edited on 26-5-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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glymes
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Also:
Ethylenediamine diperchlorate (H2N-(CH2)2-NH2.2HClO4)
Isopropyl amine perchlorate (H3C-(C-NH2)-CH3.HClO4)
5-aminotetrazole perchlorate ((C-NH2)-N3-(C-NH).HClO4)
Ethylamine perchlorate (CH2-CH2-NH2.HClO4)
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ganger631
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Are there any differences between 28 percent ammonium nitrate vs 35 ammonium nitrate, other than being lower nitrogen content? Will it be fine for
making nitric acid?
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ecos
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| Quote: Originally posted by ganger631 | | Are there any differences between 28 percent ammonium nitrate vs 35 ammonium nitrate, other than being lower nitrogen content? Will it be fine for
making nitric acid? |
the nitrogen content of AN is the same but you have more impurities in the 25% part.
the 25% will give you less nitric acid than 35% but it will work.
my advice for you is to buy nitric acid better than going to a hard process.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by glymes | Also:
Ethylenediamine diperchlorate (H2N-(CH2)2-NH2.2HClO4)
Isopropyl amine perchlorate (H3C-(C-NH2)-CH3.HClO4)
5-aminotetrazole perchlorate ((C-NH2)-N3-(C-NH).HClO4)
Ethylamine perchlorate (CH2-CH2-NH2.HClO4) |
Much less interesting, because less dense and usually worst OB--> worst detonic parameters!
Off those 4 compounds the best are
EDA DP (O3ClOH3N-CH2-CH2-NH3OClO3)
5-ATz P (O3ClOH3N-CN4H)
O3ClOH3N-CH2-CH2-NH3OClO3 --> N2(g) + 2 CO2(g) + 4 H2O(g) + 2 HCl(g) (perfect OB)
O3ClOH3N-CN4H --> 5/2 N2(g) + CO2(g) + 2 H2O(g) + 1/2 Cl2(g) (almost perfect OB, the 1/2 Cl2 could burn 1 extra H)
[Edited on 29-5-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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kratomiter
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I've been playing with guanidine perchlorate. Easy to make and sensitive, so it could be a great primary explosive. Mixed with oxides of some
transition metals (like TiO2) lowers the temperature of explosion, I hope this way will make it more fuse-sensitive.
It's also a good propellant in combination of alkali perchlorate and a polymer to reduce its sensitivity.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter | I've been playing with guanidine perchlorate. Easy to make and sensitive, so it could be a great primary explosive. Mixed with oxides of some
transition metals (like TiO2) lowers the temperature of explosion, I hope this way will make it more fuse-sensitive.
It's also a good propellant in combination of alkali perchlorate and a polymer to reduce its sensitivity. |
One may even consider the making of complexes of transition metals perchlorate with guanidine complexant...
Like:
Cu(Gu)2(ClO4)2
Co(Gu)3(ClO4)2 or Co(Gu)3(ClO4)3
Ni(Gu)3(ClO4)2 or Ni(Gu)3(ClO4)3
...
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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ecos
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is it possible to convert guanidine perchlorate to Biguanide diperchlorate ?
Biguanide diperchlorate is more powerful(8490 m/s) and less sensitive(impact sensitivity 11.8).
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by ecos | is it possible to convert guanidine perchlorate to Biguanide diperchlorate ?
Biguanide diperchlorate is more powerful(8490 m/s) and less sensitive(impact sensitivity 11.8). |
Yes more powerful as explained in a earlier post above.
Sadly not by simple nor direct ways 
Usually one has to start from H2N-C#N (cyanamide)...
Two molecules condense into cyano-guanidine (dicyan(di)amide)
H2N-C#N + H2N-C#N --> H2N-C(=NH)-NH-C#N
If you push too hard the reaction conditions, you go straight to melamine (triamino-sym-triazine).
Then condensation of cyano-guanidine with an ammonium salt
H2N-C(=NH)-NH-C#N + NH4Cl --> H2N-C(=NH)-NH-C(=NH)-NH3Cl
Maybe:
-from guanidine free base with Cl-C#N (cyanogen chloride) you could get to cyanoguanidine hydrochloride
H2N-C(=NH)-NH2 + Cl-C#N --> H2N-C(=NH)-NH-C#N . HCl
-from guanidine free base with formamidine chloride you could get to biguanidine hydrochloride
H2N-C(=NH)-NH2 + Cl-C(=NH)-NH2 --> H2N-C(=NH)-NH-C(=NH)-NH3Cl
But cyanogen chloride is nasty and formamidine chloride probably aswel.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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kratomiter
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Someone has tried the synthesis of aminoguanidine from guanidine and hydrazine? I tried neutralizing guanidine carbonate with hydrochloric acid ande
then adding hydrazine sulfate. One hour at ~80ºC while stirring. I don't know why but hydrazine sulfate doesn't seem to dissolve at all (I got a lot
of white precipitate which I believe is hydrazine sulfate). Aminoguanidine hydrochloride in solution should be yellow but mine is colourless. Any
idea?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by kratomiter | Someone has tried the synthesis of aminoguanidine from guanidine and hydrazine? I tried neutralizing guanidine carbonate with hydrochloric acid ande
then adding hydrazine sulfate. One hour at ~80ºC while stirring. I don't know why but hydrazine sulfate doesn't seem to dissolve at all (I got a lot
of white precipitate which I believe is hydrazine sulfate). Aminoguanidine hydrochloride in solution should be yellow but mine is colourless. Any
idea?
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Right no aminoguanidine inthere!
To be able to perform the substitution you need the free base, not the salt!
You started from guanidine hydrochloride and hydrazine hydrogenosulfate...so no base is free.
You eather need guanidine and HHS or hydrazine and GHC.
So in fact adding 1 equivalent or two of NaOH will help you for that purpose since NaOH is a stronger base, it will catch the hydrochloride or sulfate
of hydrogen and set some hydrazine/guanidine free (hydrazine is the weakest base so it will be freebased first; then guanidine).
Then upon heating-reflux NH3 may freely be evolved from the system.
H2N-C(=NH)-NH2 + H2N-NH2 <==> H2N-NH-C(=NH)-NH2 + NH3(g)
It is an equilibrium!
NH3 is a stronger base than hydrazine but weaker than guanidine; but NH3 is much more volatile than hydrazine,which is itself more volatile than
guanidine...when getting out of the system NH3 gas favors the right reaction side and the formation of aminoguanidine.
Note that you will not only have mono-amino but also di-amino and tri-amino-guanidine and initial guanidine salt based on a statistical distribution
(depends on initial ratio of the réactants).
I would start from Guanidine hydrochloride and hydrazine hydrate to avoid the sulfate anion and Na2SO4, NaHSO4...but then you need to work the
hydrazine hydrogenosulfate with Ba(OH)2 or Ca(OH)2 to get rid of the sulfate as a CaSO4 or BaSO4 precipitate.
Alternatively distilate hydrazine in the cold and in PE or PP plastic apparatus from a dry (or slightly wet) exces NaOH and hydrazine
hydrogenosulfate.
Avoid glass since NaOH and hydrazine are corrosive to it and avoid overheating since hydrazine is endothermic from its elements and hypergolic...so
might take fire or explode.
[Edited on 4-6-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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kratomiter
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Thank you PHILOU. Doesn't aminoguanidine hydrolize in basic media?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Possible but slow...theorically guanidine is an amide derivative of carbonic acid...
(HO-)2C=O + H2O --> C(-OH)4
(H2N-)2C=NH + NH3 --> C(-NH2)4
C(-OH)4 + 4 NH3 <==> C(-NH2)4 + 4 H2O
edit:
So in principle:
(H2N-)2C=NH + H2O <==> (H2N-)2C=O + NH3
guanidine + water <--> urea + NH3
(H2N-)2C=O + H2O <==> H2N-CO2H + NH3
urea + water <--> ammonium carbamate (H2N-CO2NH4)
H2N-CO2NH4 + H2O <==> (HO-)2C=O + 2 NH3
ammonium carbamate + water <--> ammonium carbonate ((NH4)2CO3)
[Edited on 5-6-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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A banned chemical
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Hi guys been lurking here for sometime.
I have a question relating to a most likely silly thought but I simply can't shake the idea.
I searched online and came up with nothing so I'm assuming its not a thing but like I said I can't shake the idea.
So anyway I was looking at a select group of compounds that might be suitable candidates for research explosives.
I was looking in particular for compounds of similar structure or with similar groupings to existing materials that have been confirmed to be
nitratable into an explosive of either an ester amine or nitro aromatic type.
So anyway here's the question caffeine.
Could this be nitrated into an explosive?
Its an aromatic with groups that match non aromatic groups to some degree.
This like I said may be a stupid question so please don't be mad if it is I tried not to start a new thread on it so if it is then hey whatever.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by A banned chemical |
I was looking in particular for compounds of similar structure or with similar groupings to existing materials that have been confirmed to be
nitratable into an explosive of either an ester amine or nitro aromatic type.
So anyway here's the question caffeine.
Could this be nitrated into an explosive?
Its an aromatic with groups that match non aromatic groups to some degree.
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What is ester amine?
Amines, alcohols, halogen (by substitution) are nitratable.
Caffeine may be turned after partial or total hydrolysis into methylnitramine or methylamine nitrate but it is a big waste of material.
[Edited on 6-6-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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A banned chemical
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Sorry punctuation may have helped there.
I meant that as in I comparing to common nitro esters/amines
Do you have a feasible (practical) method this is something that interests me.
Even if you give a general idea of rough quantities I am willing to refine and post results here.
On that note do you have any idea of what this compounds properties would be sensitivity,VOD,toxicity etc?
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Lol sounds like "a nitrogen rich molecule"
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A banned chemical
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I don't get the joke.
Seriously though anyone know were a synthesis can be found or does any one have one?
[Edited on 8-6-2016 by A banned chemical]
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PHILOU Zrealone
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| Quote: Originally posted by A banned chemical | I don't get the joke.
Seriously though anyone know were a synthesis can be found or does any one have one?
[Edited on 8-6-2016 by A banned chemical] |
This is not a joke, everytime a new poster writes, it reminds us a trolling poster that had mutliple ID and posting continuously mistakes, daydreams,
schizophrenic non sense...
Everytime his account was blocked, he came back with a new saying he wasn't the same guy...but he was and we noticed because his ideas where in the
same line, and he was always doing the same kind of chemical mistakes.
Not from cafeine...because unpractical and un-economical
About the properties, everything is to be found into the forum via the search engine or on internet by Google-ing...but of course you need to type in
the good key words...
[Edited on 8-6-2016 by PHILOU Zrealone]
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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Mr.BairyHalls
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Hello everyone, I have a question in regards to the eutectics of ETN and more specifically ETN/RDX. Does anyone have any information on the
performance and general properties of an ETN/RDX cast composite? If so, can someone point me in the right direction? I'm currently testing and
researching the properties on an ETN/RDX (2:1 & 2:5) cast composite and cocrystal. I believe NeonPulse mentioned it earlier in this thread but I'd
like to know more. Also, I was wondering if I should open a new thread and post my results since there is currently no available thread on the
subject.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/242345030_Thermal_b...
[Edited on 11-6-2016 by Mr.BairyHalls]
What stinks, has an extremely hairy twin brother, and itches all day?
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PHILOU Zrealone
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BairyHalls --> HairyBalls   
Just kidding
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
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Mr.BairyHalls
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I'm glad someone gets it 
What stinks, has an extremely hairy twin brother, and itches all day?
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KesterDraconis
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I have a question about the synthesis of nickle hydrazine nitrate.
I have hydrazine sulfate, but I don't have any calcium hydrozide or barium hydroxide to react with, then filter off, to get a solution of hydrzine
hydrate. Would there happen be another way than using these to chemicals to get a solution of hydrazine from hydrazine sulfate that would be safe to
use in the synthesis of NHN?
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NeonPulse
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Potassium or Sodium hydroxide will also work but keep the solution very cold and protect it from air.
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