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Laboratory of Liptakov
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It so happened, that the booster scattered the charge on the dust and set it on fire. It was only deflagration of charge. With partially detonation
about 10%. Only booster was full detonation. It seems, that your original mixtures
are much better. How exact oil you use in original mixtures? Vegetable? Olive? Or another? Next: I think, that your plate is too thick. Maybe will
necessary use steel profile 3 mm. Not flat plate on flat wood. Profile has big advantage. Has air gap and always same distance for measurement. And a
like bonus, bottom part catch secondary energy. Any way, very nice spectacular attempt...
I recommend stop attempts until to obtain minimal 10 pieces same profiles. For example 40x40 (or 30x50) x 150 mm, 2,5 - 3 mm of thickness. And a like
first, try your best mixture 20g. Next: Well ground powders mixed mixed dry, is base error. Always is necessary create water porridge and create final
dry grain 1 - 2x2 mm. Next: Density 1,4 is too much from my experiences.
I recommend 1,25. Nevr you fill fine powder. Always bigger grains.
[Edited on 10-4-2021 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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papaya
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I already started thinking it went unintentionally thermobaric  Oil - I wrote
minefal oil, but that is really a stuff sold in small bottles for sewing machines or something like that, its a thick transparent liquid with little
to no odour.I tried also greenish olive vegetable oil, that also worked, but back then it was time of mixed fails/successes (no final recepie) so I
cannot say if that was the veg. oil to blame or not. Anyway, veg. oil is a drying oil so maybe it is not worth for storage stability. Used one time
vazeline without a problem. Oil is 0.3g to 10g of chlorate as written, but it is not a Religion,it was based on some guess not deep research, one may
tune to better value maybe. But from my previuos attempts just oil + hexamine didn't work at 20mm diameter at least(see that last videos with kclo3),
so don't be surprized if you try. It needs third, hard, maybe insoluble in oil (!?), fuel, better if with unsaturated bonds, reactive gruops, lower
decomposition temperature, etc, at least how I understand. I don't know if that is coincidence or not but fuels that worked like hexamine vanilline
are capable of sublimation, high vapour pressure, does it help? In my mixes first hexamine + rosin composite is made by melting them at 180C.Best
powr ratio 2:1 hex to rosin. But reverse ratio is also interesting 1:2.15 hex/rosin, since it iy equimolar ratio of hexamine to abietic acid, it maybe
creates a resinate salt(one is acid other is base)! I tried that only once it also worked,seemed juust a little less power,BUT.. it has good sides
also - the mixture has plasticy properties - not much self sticky like real plasticine, but still easily put into tube press with finger, a hole made
with pencil and it holds the the shape! About plate thickness - was thick but it last attempt it didn't matter since it burned. But I'm curious to see
what damage to such a thick plate can potentially be done, let it be around some time  Next about wet mixing,sifting etc - you are rigth, but I'm after the most practical mixtures maybe (?) One, that is just compining
components and ready, if one exists of course. Same with density - why use mix that works only at 1.1 when there isother working at 1.4? IMHO that
rosin stuff is not the most energy containing one, it owes power maybe best part to density. Regards.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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OK, thank for detail explanation. If it works at 1.4, is it of course better. Type of oil is not important, it seems. But very interest is abietic
acid + hexamine, which create some salt. Maybe is it key of your invent. And partially binder. Rosin should be 80 % abietic acid and next natural
compounds. Maybe is it pretty smelling process at 180 Celsius? 2 hours for melting process is maybe too much. Even one hour is enough long. But if
this gived best results, is it important process. Because so huge holes from 10g - 12g chlorate mix are incredible. Especially on pretty thick target
profile 2,4 mm.
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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papaya
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Process is not that smelly, I did it indoors, some minty flavour. I used a small beaker 1/5 full and wrapped the mouth with Al foil to avoid
oxidation, only fhing it requires to open that lid, stirr and scrap down into mixture again some of the hexamine that deposits on the colder walls
due to sublimation. 180C is not critical to rosin in the abscence of oxygen, I read some rosin related chemistry but I forgot now to what maximum
temperature it is still resistant, it may partially destroy hexamine though(maybe that is needed??). If I add just a pinch of hexamine to the molten
rosin (not the whole quantity) it is obvious that it DISSOLVES into melt, of course when adding all powder it cannot dissolve anymore. Also with
reaction the melt becomes darker with time. I'm not sure what is the chemical reaction here, I googled it but to my surprize not a single paper found,
I found that theres some reaction with formaldehyde (addition to double bond yielding -CH2OH derivative), but seems to be not polycondensation(no
polymer). also I know that hexamine is used as a substitude to formalin in making of phenol-formaldehyde resins (resols) since it will degrade at
elevated temperatures to formaldehyde and some imines.. Complex chemistry here,theres a nature paper about it, if I remember correctly I choose
temperature from that research so hexamine to become a little reactive at least and do something. monitored temperature with thermocuople, above 200C
starts to really blacken, may yield char, not recommended.Below that I'm not sure if something usable will be obtained, I never explored all
variables, don't want to deter anyone from actual research.Might even indifidual mix of rosin and hexamine powder just work? I had one failure but
JUST ONCE! So one can test and prove that no reaction is needed, I'll be glad to know. I would be very thankful if someone with good organic chemistry
background or one having IR spectrometer could look/ explain that reaction, no paper found after all!
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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Energetic materials is an unexplored field of research. TACP has been known for 100 years. But never explored in detail. Until 2014. When it turned
out that its detonation velocity at a density of 1.9 g / cc is up to 7500 m / s. Also diethylene glycol has been known for 100 years and NaClO4 even
longer.
And yet, it was not until 2010 that the energy material NaP + DEG + H2O was discovered. Its VoD is up to 7000m/s. Incredible simply mixture, which no
require nothing chemical equipment. Only mixing of 3 things at normal temperature. After mixing the mixture warms to 40 ° C it itself. And then it
hardens. Done. And it holds in the cavity. During a 20 minute only. For this reason, it is quite possible to discover a new fuel for NaClO3. Without
precise knowledge of the composition. Just discover and describe only the procedure that works. After all, the preparation of ROSHEX is a more
demanding process. Requires a rugged chemical thermometer. Not everyone has one. Also the supply of more precisely regulated heat, not everyone has
it. Measuring the temperature in a closed container is another problem. For example, I never needed these things. When I researching anything, the
emphasis is on maximum ease of preparation. But it's great to know that such a powerful mixture can be prepared.
Which is the basis of science madness......
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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papaya
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Another comparative test, this time 12g versus 20g of that chlorate/hexamine/rosin/oil mixture on a 5mm thick steel plate. All parameters are the same
(casing, initiation, density,etc) only the loading height is different:
https://tube.tchncs.de/videos/watch/edc4b1fe-c015-43d6-8e5e-...
News are a little disappointing - the dent left from 20g is noticeably smaller than from only 12g! Therefore the action of initiator was significant
in previous tests, longer charge became weaker - not in the absolute energy output of course rather the pressure at the exit end I guess.I don't know
what if there was for example x3-x4 times longer charge - might it even sustain detonation all along ? But this would require much more than 20g of
material, I doubt I will ever be able to test that.
At least it left a dent on that thick plate..
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MineMan
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Quote: Originally posted by papaya  | Another comparative test, this time 12g versus 20g of that chlorate/hexamine/rosin/oil mixture on a 5mm thick steel plate. All parameters are the same
(casing, initiation, density,etc) only the loading height is different:
https://tube.tchncs.de/videos/watch/edc4b1fe-c015-43d6-8e5e-...
News are a little disappointing - the dent left from 20g is noticeably smaller than from only 12g! Therefore the action of initiator was significant
in previous tests, longer charge became weaker - not in the absolute energy output of course rather the pressure at the exit end I guess.I don't know
what if there was for example x3-x4 times longer charge - might it even sustain detonation all along ? But this would require much more than 20g of
material, I doubt I will ever be able to test that.
At least it left a dent on that thick plate.. |
Do you have nitromethane?
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papaya
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| Quote: Originally posted by MineMan | | Quote: Originally posted by papaya | Another comparative test, this time 12g versus 20g of that chlorate/hexamine/rosin/oil mixture on a 5mm thick steel plate. All parameters are the same
(casing, initiation, density,etc) only the loading height is different:
https://tube.tchncs.de/videos/watch/edc4b1fe-c015-43d6-8e5e-...
News are a little disappointing - the dent left from 20g is noticeably smaller than from only 12g! Therefore the action of initiator was significant
in previous tests, longer charge became weaker - not in the absolute energy output of course rather the pressure at the exit end I guess.I don't know
what if there was for example x3-x4 times longer charge - might it even sustain detonation all along ? But this would require much more than 20g of
material, I doubt I will ever be able to test that.
At least it left a dent on that thick plate.. |
Do you have nitromethane? |
Unfortunately not, but also I'm not a fan of low boiling liquids or other things that will turn energetic into a short living thing. Water
nitromethane nitrobenzene all is good as long as you don't want to store it more than a day. Not that I need to store them, but I see a disadvantage
in that therefore no interest to try.
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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20g is weaker than 12g under the same conditions. Yes, at 40 g and a longer column, the detonation can completely disappear. Anyway, 12g and also 20g
does a good work on thick 5mm steel. It is not a failure, it is a useful part of research. And an interesting lesson for anyone. Not everything is as
clear and successful as it seems. That's what I meant when I saw first attempts, first successfulls with mixture NaClO3 + hexrosin.
MineMan: Yes, is possible use nitromethane. Or some else. But the main think were from start create maximaly simpl mixture with a good power for
shaped charges. The, what increase power and stability of shock wave (always), is old good powder Aluminium 5%. Even 2% causes miracle.
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
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UndermineBriarEverglade
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brightthermite | Trying a mix of ETN and NC as another potential option for pourable explosives. Using double base smokeless powered, acetone and ETN I made a thick
gel in a 3/1 NC/ETN.
Already some potential downsides-it took a lot of acetone to form a 5 gram slurry. It also increased the volume dramatically so this leads me to
believe it is not at max density. The volume increase could be do to air being stirred into the mix, and since the mix is so thick not much air was
allowed to escape even with lots of agitation.
Anyways ill report the results. |
Did you do any subsequent experimentation with this? I'm exploring ETN mixes and would rather use DBSP than NC (one less nitration to do).
LL, I put some polystyrene under acetone and it formed a thick gel rather than dissolving. I removed air bubbles under a vacuum, but as it dried more
bubbles appeared and the final density of the plastic is very low. In your "styrofex" video, did the styrofoam completely dissolve in the solvent? If
so, what do you think about xylene instead of toluene?
[Edited on 2024-9-28 by UndermineBriarEverglade]
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UndermineBriarEverglade
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Tried making both mixes. I calculated 1.73g polystyrene per 100g ETN for complete combustion. I "dissolved" .25g polystyrene in acetone until it was a
gel, then added 5g ETN. Total failure. The polystyrene did not absorb any ETN and quickly hardened. Adding more acetone dissolved the ETN, but the
polystyrene stayed floating in it and hardened. Additional polystyrene failed to soften when added to this mix. I think this is because ETN is much
more soluble than polystyrene.
I removed the polystyrene and added 7.45g of DBSP to the ETN acetone solution (didn't attempt to calculate OB since I don't know exact composition of
my powder). It didn't completely dissolve but with stirring eventually formed a sort of slurry. While drying, it seemed like the ETN was forming a
hard layer on the top, protecting the liquid underneath. It dried with a wrinkled surface. Since I have not yet built a working impact tester I fear
that this mix may be more sensitive than plain ETN.
It seems like both mixes require more polymer to form a smooth mix than would be optimal for performance. I didn't even bother drying under a vacuum.
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dettoo456
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A plasticizer or oil (soluble in Acetone or whatever solvent you’re using for the ETN) might help to keep the polystyrene malleable during mixing
and after it’s fully solvent-dry.
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