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aga
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Yeah. Where's the results Crowfjord ?
Fire up your boiler and get some thumping done !
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Crowfjord
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Sorry to keep you guys waiting. I think that I am finally rested enough after kicking the ass of a cell biology course to get going this weekend 
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blogfast25
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No rush. Look forward to your results though, Crowfjord.
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Crowfjord
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Having determined that the addition of a thumper does indeed add some efficiency to a simple distillation setup, it was decided that the next course
of action would be to investigate the effect of the initial fill level of the thumper. Aga was kind enough to offer to send an alcohol refractometer
to me, so I took on the task.
The experiments were conducted as follows:
Feedstock was cheap 80 proof vodka, diluted four times by volume. The refractometer reading was 10% (w/w). In each experiment, a 1000 mL
round-bottom flask (pot) was connected via a copper tube to a 500 mL three-necked RBF (thumper), which in turn led to an aluminum foil-insulated
distillation head and Liebig condenser. The third neck was plugged with a rubber septum. For each run, 500 mL of feedstock was placed in the pot and
either 250, 125, or 0 mL were placed in the thumper. Ceramic insulation was placed between the hotplate and thumper (see photo).
Over the course of each distillation, 5 mL fractions of distillate were collected and their ethanol concentration measured. Since it was determined
that the refractometer was most accurate nearer to the 0% (by weight) ethanol side of the scale, samples were diluted four times (4X) by weight before
testing. An aliquot was taken from each fraction, and 0.50 g to 0.55 g was weighed into a tared vial, then distilled water was added until the total
mass was four times that of the original. The reading was then taken after thoroughly mixing the dilution. Similarly, readings were also taken from
the thumper liquid through each distillation. Thumper samples were also diluted either 4X or 2X before testing, depending on concentration.
Observations
In each run,about 50 to 120 mL of liquid would collect in the thumper before distillation began. Once distillation began, bubbles could be seen
growing and releasing from the sides of the copper tube. Distillate would come over rather quickly at first (~2 drops/second), then was allowed to
slow to ~0.5 to 1 drop/second. Temperature of the hotplate under the pot was manually adjusted upward over the run to maintain this distillation
rate.
Results
The highest concentration of alcohol distilled from an initially empty thumper (see Figure 1), and a descending trend can be seen as the initial
volume in the thumper is increased. Similarly, the thumper liquid declines in alcohol concentration as the distillation proceeds (Figure 2).
Figure 1. Ethanol concentrations of distillate collected in 5 mL fractions from thumper with varying initial fill level.
Figure 2. Approximate ethanol concentrations of liquid in thumper at the time of indicated fraction's collection.
I Will leave the discussion to be carried out among the community. This post may be subject to edits for clarity as suggestions are made.
Here is the photo of the setup, as well as the raw data in excel.
Attachment: Thumper distillation data.xlsx (38kB)
This file has been downloaded 371 times
[Edited on 16-8-2015 by Crowfjord]
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blogfast25
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Nice experiment and write up, Crowfjord.
I'll probably have some more things to add to this later on but for now I'll comment that it's a nice confirmation that initially empty thumpers work
best and provide the highest degree of EtOH enrichment.
Thanks for that work.
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aga
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Woohoo !
Nice one Crowfjord !
Very good work there.
How did you determine that the refractometer was more accurate at low w% ?
Is the scale logarithmic ?
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aga
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Scratch that - i just looked at mine again and it is logarithmic.
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Crowfjord
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I found when testing solutions of high, known alcohol concentrations that the reading was very off. For example, the undiluted vodka came in at 46%
(w/w), where the hydrometer, which I know to be accurate, read 36 % ABV. Some known 95% ethanol also gave a reading of something like 65%. I also
reasoned that since the refractometer was calibrated/zeroed with distilled water, it would be most accurate with solutions that were closest to 100%
water.
Some tests showed that diluted samples gave readings that were satisfactory.
[Edited on 16-8-2015 by Crowfjord]
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nitro-genes
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Apart from making 95% nitric acid, distillation is also a nice way to get rid of undrinkable wines (plum wine for example is much better distilled
IMO)
Regarding accurate alcohol percentage determination:
A 50 ml volumetric flask and reasonably accurate scale does the trick for me...
Temperature depended water/ethanol density tables can be found over here:
-->http://www.separationprocesses.com/CourseWare/Experiments/Property01.htm
[Edited on 16-8-2015 by nitro-genes]
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Crowfjord
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Thanks, nitro-genes. I used that density table in my previous thumper distillation experiments. It proved quite handy.
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aga
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Amazing.
I just went through the sign-up process on homedistiller.org to post a link to this thread so they could see the Scientific Proof of the effectiveness
of a Thumper, following Crowfjord's work to complete the proof.
Result was 'Topic Disapproved' by a moderator.
Are they seriously saying that i can be Drunk on a Science/Chemistry forum, yet not be drunk on a Booze Distillation forum ?
Ah well. Their loss.
Edit:
Their Member's loss actually, as the Moderator will probably take a Sneaky Peek themselves.
Oh the Power ! The Power !
[Edited on 16-8-2015 by aga]
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blogfast25
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aga:
Maybe they confused the term "proof" (as in 'conclusive evidence') with "proof" as in 'the measure of ethanol in an alcoholic'?
[Edited on 16-8-2015 by blogfast25]
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gdflp
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Don't worry aga, it seems the mods reposted it. Apparently they're all upset because you didn't introduce yourself. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=5719...
Doesn't seem like some of the folks on that forum are terribly scientific though. | Quote: | | I don't need a scientific paper to tell me what I can see with my own two eyes. |
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blogfast25
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While I appreciate aga's effort of posting at homedistiller.org, that 'forum' is mainly a chat room for the scientifically and grammatically
challenged. Before we conducted the experiments I trawled that place literally for hours trying to find useful information on thumpers and
found none. Hundreds of useless posts and endless patting each other on the back ('wel doen, xYZ!') but not the slightest proof of concept re.
thumpers in sight. If anything, that forum made me more sceptical [of thumpers] than I already was (at the time)! 
See also the reaction aga's information has received: 'we don't need no science here bro'. Cretins will be cretins.
EDIT: the link from HD to SM (this thread) doesn't seem to work.
[Edited on 17-8-2015 by blogfast25]
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aga
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Never mind.
They seem to be enjoying themselves, which is the main thing.
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blogfast25
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Wouldn't that enjoyment be enhanced by a modicum of intellectual rigour and fact-checking?
Wait! Probably not, come to think of it. Give people a choice between meaningless pap or something informative that requires switching on one's grey
matter and most will go for the pap.
[Edited on 17-8-2015 by blogfast25]
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aga
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To be fair, i fit right in over on that forum !
I'll get to be Forum T-Totaller soon with any luck.
(dont get your hopes up - i can multi-forum in any state).
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Loptr
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aga, you ruffled some feathers over there. lol
Looks like they are calling you a troll now...
Our minds produce such an effective internal reality that its blends the borders between our senses and pre-conceived notions, even to the point where
we sometimes can't distinguish between the two.
[Edited on 17-8-2015 by Loptr]
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aga
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Thread locked. DOH !
I suppose SM is a place for facts, HD a place for drunken beliefs.
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blogfast25
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A lot of these members don't like science one little bit. Science is OK when it makes useful 'stuff' but anything else is a bit suspect:
'intellectual' and 'elitist', you know? 
The idea that moonshining (thumpers, slobber boxes or whatnot included) can be looked at scientifically isn't something they cherish. That the most
successful distilling houses apply the scientific method to maximum effect doesn't really occur to most of them either.
[Edited on 17-8-2015 by blogfast25]
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gdflp
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I was browsing through their forums and found a quite funny thread. Apparently using a glass thumper and distillation vessel is idiotic because glass
can break. They all use copper or steel instead. I guess none of them have ever tried to distill nitric acid.
[Edited on 8-17-2015 by gdflp]
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by gdflp  | I was browsing through their forums and found a quite funny thread. Apparently using a glass thumper and distillation vessel is idiotic because glass
can break. They all use copper or steel instead. I guess none of them have ever tried to distill nitric acid.
[Edited on 8-17-2015 by gdflp] |
They tend to prefer copper because they're distilling drinking alcohol. Copper eliminates sulphides, among other things. And it's a good material for
DIY stills: abundant, malleable and easy to solder/braze.
Borosilicate glass is obviously fine too but some were using jam jars for their thumpers: I would try and discourage that too.
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gdflp
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Indeed. Perhaps I've become spoiled, when I think of glass and distillation, I think of Pyrex and quickfit glassware instead of jars and soda glass
tubing.
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aga
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They seem an innocuous and pleasant bunch.
No appetite for anything New though.
Amazing they adopt the term 'azeo' seeing as the phase diagram for ethanol/water will almost certainly not have been produced by careful shaking of a
bottle of sippin' whisky and precision dribbling (to adjust the water content).
Funny really. Having a brief taste of that forum, i felt more like blogfast25 must do here when faced with my comments.
I definiately need to eat up some of those Pearls and stop behaving like a swine.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga |
Funny really. Having a brief taste of that forum, i felt more like blogfast25 must do here when faced with my comments.
I definiately need to eat up some of those Pearls and stop behaving like a swine. |
... Some of your comments, aga. But funnily enough that thought crossed my mind when I read the exchange too. 
Some at HD will appreciate SM's approach to EtOH distillation and thumpers more than others and you can't please everyone (blimey, look at me and my
bag of platitudes! )
A lot of people tend to resist things that are outside of their comfort zone, I guess.
Oooopsie: I see they've now actually locked the thread. Reason? It's a 'train wreck' apparently. Pffftt... Maybe it's better that way
[locked] anyroads.
[Edited on 18-8-2015 by blogfast25]
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