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aga
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That was the earlier Bam Bam design.
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Crowfjord
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Anybody ever see/read this little book? It's a pretty entertaining read, copyrighted 1966. I think that it was from this that I initially thought
that a slobber box and thumper were the same thing. It seems to operate on that assumption. Also, it doesn't specify whether or not the tube should
reach to the bottom, or whether to start with some liquid inside.
A favorite quote:
"Some old moonshiners never add yeast, depending on yeast which remains in the fermentation barrels or vats or on natural yeasts of the air. Some
operators maintain, even vehemently, that no yeast is involved in their fermentation, and in certain circles one sometimes hears, 'I don't like
yeast whisky!' But add yeast; it's fast and sure and one cannot often afford to waste time."
Pardon the crappy images, my camera kind of sucks.
 
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aga
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Quote: Originally posted by Zombie  | The heat from the water vapor in the Alch. depleted boiler is now coming over at or near 210 - 212 * f, and the BP in the thump is at or near 185 -
190 *f.
No need to move anything |
I don't understand how the Boiling Point in the Thump can be static - as i see it it will be very much a dynamic, first going lower as it takes up the
EtOH from the boiling pot, then going higher as it loses EtOH, and takes in Water (steam) at the same time.
Sealing the intake from the first boiling pot after it gives up it's Shine, and moving the heat will surely give more % in the distillate.
By adding Steam (i.e. water) from the first pot, the Thumper pot gets Diluted as well as heated.
With out setup, we can unhook the first pot easily, plug the open neck and move the flame, so that might be worth trying After the initial runs to get
the Thump data.
We'll know for sure when the last two glass jigsaw pieces arrive.
Oh. Question @ Zombie: what are you guys actually measuring during runs ?
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by aga]
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Magpie | I've been looking at the ethanol-water VLE chart in my textbook (Foust) in regard to the enthalpy. It is presented as BTU/lb-mole. What's amazing is
that the enthalpies for both the liquid and the vapor stay almost the same as the streams (liquid and vapor) increase in ethanol content. I interpret
this to mean that once the thumper reaches maximum ethanol concentration it's not only going to put out a richer vapor but it's going to come over
like gangbusters. My conclusion is based on the fact that a lb-mole of water weights 18 lbs whereas a lb-mole of ethanol weighs 46 lbs.
Zombie: Does your experience support this?
Edit: This is likely due to the fact that on a per mole basis water and ethanol heats of vaporization are very close, ie, for water it is 40.65
kJ/mol and for ethanol it is 42.3 kJ/mole. So 14 g of condensing water should evaporate 44 g of ethanol.
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Magpie] |
Everything you said here is absolutely correct. This is why I keep repeating the heat to the boiler must be throttled or reduced to control the
product output.
If left alone, once the boiler is depleted of EtOH, it will quickly over power the thumper due to the drastically lower boiling point of the thumper
liquid.
You will begin spewing water in the vapor out of the thumper, and negate the effect of the thumper.
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]
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Zom.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by deltaH | | Quote: Originally posted by Zombie | | Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 |
Completely second that. A controlled refluxer/tray would be far more efficient and demonstrably effective.
Even simpler: a decent fractionating column. Easy peasy and highly effective.
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by blogfast25] |
That's where all this comes full circle back to the nature of the builders, and operators of thumpers.
For the most part they were back woods Tennessee hill folk.
The most they understood was basic trading math, and how to fit a lid on a bucket.
If you think about the origin, it's actually quite a leap in evolution for them. |
I included some old looking rum still setups a while back in this thread that appeared to be using thumpers, so I'm not so sure these 'billies
invented them. I think it's much more likely that this knowledge was imported from rum making methodology and that in itself might be very old, who
knows? |
Chicken or the egg?
Most claim the Irish invented distilling, but there are documents going back to ancient Persia, and Egypt showing distillation apparatus.
Rum was generally an English distillation in later eras so Scotland / Ireland would have the same technologies, and most of the early hill folk were
Celts.
Chicken or the egg...
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
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Zombie
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That was Wilma's I believe. She needed it to put up w/ Fred's hi-jinx.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Crowfjord |
Anybody ever see/read this little book? It's a pretty entertaining read, copyrighted 1966. I think that it was from this that I initially thought
that a slobber box and thumper were the same thing. It seems to operate on that assumption. Also, it doesn't specify whether or not the tube should
reach to the bottom, or whether to start with some liquid inside.
A favorite quote:
"Some old moonshiners never add yeast, depending on yeast which remains in the fermentation barrels or vats or on natural yeasts of the air. Some
operators maintain, even vehemently, that no yeast is involved in their fermentation, and in certain circles one sometimes hears, 'I don't like
yeast whisky!' But add yeast; it's fast and sure and one cannot often afford to waste time."
Pardon the crappy images, my camera kind of sucks. |
That is also partly true. Depending on where you are, and the vegetation around you.
If you are near apples or grapes there is no need to add yeast. It abounds at certain times of the year.
Also long time distillers WILL have enough yeast on / in their equipment that adding yeast is never needed ie: wooden mash barrels.
My Grandfather was a minimalist, and added 1/2 a teaspoon sprinkled over the top of a 55 gallon mash. Normally that is less than you need for a loaf
of bread but he had enough in the wood to really do the job anyway.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | | Quote: Originally posted by Zombie | The heat from the water vapor in the Alch. depleted boiler is now coming over at or near 210 - 212 * f, and the BP in the thump is at or near 185 -
190 *f.
No need to move anything |
I don't understand how the Boiling Point in the Thump can be static - as i see it it will be very much a dynamic, first going lower as it takes up the
EtOH from the boiling pot, then going higher as it loses EtOH, and takes in Water (steam) at the same time.
Sealing the intake from the first boiling pot after it gives up it's Shine, and moving the heat will surely give more % in the distillate.
By adding Steam (i.e. water) from the first pot, the Thumper pot gets Diluted as well as heated.
With out setup, we can unhook the first pot easily, plug the open neck and move the flame, so that might be worth trying After the initial runs to get
the Thump data.
We'll know for sure when the last two glass jigsaw pieces arrive.
Oh. Question @ Zombie: what are you guys actually measuring during runs ?
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by aga] |
You missed the point.
The run is very much dynamic. At the END of the run is where my statement applies.
The fact is the boiler is now 2-3% ABV. The thump is near 18% abv. The steam coming over does NOT dilute as the EtOH is vaporizing at a faster rate
than the water. That is the sole purpose of heat control. It is the EXACT same thing as moving pots around, and you end up with the exact same abv,
and amount as if you had moved pots.
You will understand completely once you see it in action. I promise.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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aga
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So you expect the ethanol to evaporate off faster than the steam coming in.
OK.
From what you say, you imply that you're measuring the EtOH % in the boiling pot liquid, and the Thumper liquid.
If that's true, then how do you obtain samples without disrupting the temperature/pressure conditions, or is that part of it as well ?
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | So you expect the ethanol to evaporate off faster than the steam coming in.
OK.
From what you say, you imply that you're measuring the EtOH % in the boiling pot liquid, and the Thumper liquid.
If that's true, then how do you obtain samples without disrupting the temperature/pressure conditions, or is that part of it as well ?
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There is no need to sample the pots. Physics dictates that EtOH will be the primary vapor untill it becomes to low in percentage to apply.
If you wished you could shut down at 50% abv product out of the thumper, and verify this. The boiler will be dramatically lower abv than the thumper.
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]
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blogfast25
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You're using the term 'steam' wrongly here. Steam is water vapour. What comes of the pot is water/EtOH vapour.
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Zombie
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Oh... To verify the former... You are collecting an average of 50% abv for the entire run, so in the end the thumper proves out to displace 50% water,
and 50% EtOH average,
The single pot still will wind up around 80% abv. translating to 60% water, and 40% EtOH. That alone points to the thumper being more efficient than a
pot by itself.
In the beginning , Yes the pot will displace more EToH. After 50ABV the pot will produce more water. BUT the thump now takes over, and the pot is
simply a heat source..
So in reality it does not matter hat the pot is putting out It is only there for heat, and the thump is displacing more EtOH than water. You stop at
40% because that shift has now transferred to the pot,and we don't want / need the water.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
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aga
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Your point is clear, yet i still feel that moving the flame will give a slightly higher yield.
Well, we'll see once the data is collected.
It is a real pain waiting for deliveries of small bits of glassware.
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aga
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DRY STATES ?
Sorry, i only just realised that it wasn't a Joke.
Prohibition is still alive and well across entire States in the US ?!?!
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | Your point is clear, yet i still feel that moving the flame will give a slightly higher yield.
Well, we'll see once the data is collected.
It is a real pain waiting for deliveries of small bits of glassware. |
I love you guys, and really appreciate all the time/ money you are investing.
This has been very enlightening because I am learning that I should be paying more attention to the technical side of chemistry.
I tend to learn the mechanics, and ignore the math, formulas, and lingo.
Perhaps it is because I never enjoyed discussing methods in a common language. I'm more of a do'er, than a talker.
If I did pay attention, and apply what I know to formulas, Perhaps I could have conveyed the formulas in a manner much more precise than my hitting
the keyboard with a hammer, and you all would have understood more clearly what I am trying to express.
Many thanks. You are making a monster you know... 
Super Brain 2016!!!
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careysub
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No, there are no "dry" states in the US.
There are "dry" counties however, but what "dry" means varies from county to county. Usually it means no alcohol sales, sometimes just no distilled
spirits sales, and often a ban on possessing in public.
Even where dry counties no longer exist, their legacy can often be seen by liquor stores still sited just over one side of the county line.
Until 2013 there were states that prohibited home brewing, but Mississippi and Alabama climbed aboard the home brewing bandwagon mid-year.
Home distilling for the purposes of consumption is right out by Federal law.
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by careysub]
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aga
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So you can Brew, but not Shine.
Drink, but not publicly.
Next they'll want to ban Drugs and stop all those Sober people carrying guns ...
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by aga]
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | So you can Brew, but not Shine.
Drink, but not publicly.
Next they'll want to ban Drugs and stop all those Sober people carrying guns ...
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by aga] |
GOD FORBID! I Like gettin' doped up, and shootin' at sh^t. Especially at drunks!
Dry county map...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2014/09/02/wh...
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careysub
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You will observe that the upper part of the "dry county belt" correspond closely to Appalachia, which one might regard as also being the "moonshine
belt".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachia
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aga
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So to be Safe, and not being familiar with US State geography, i need to head for Miami or Arizona (Avoiding California on grounds of it being too
strange to matter) ?
Holiday with Jail Time for drinking beer = no holiday.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga | So to be Safe, and not being familiar with US State geography, i need to head for Miami or Arizona (Avoiding California on grounds of it being too
strange to matter) ?
Holiday with Jail Time for drinking beer = no holiday. |
We have a saying, and a song to back it up.
Arrive on vacation, Leave on probation!
[Edited on 20-2-2015 by Zombie]
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aga
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I googled "hot dicketty dang holidays"
Currently regretting.
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Zombie
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This is the one you want...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nRC8VNlu-A
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aga
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Apologies for the delay in posting any results of a definitive experiment.
Ebay. Gah !
Currently waiting for delivery of a 19 male/24 female adapter and (embarassingly) a 500 ml RBF.
I broke my only 500ml quickfit RBF testing the idea that 'whacking heat into sodium benzoate + NaOH will break your glassware when it cools'
It does. Use metal.
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blogfast25
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It didn't mine.
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