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aga
Forum Drunkard
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Registered: 25-3-2014
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If this is for a Hooch Rig, why not just add Pb chelating agents such as Edetate Calcium Disodium (CaNa2EDTA) to your Thumper and steal the
march on your competition ?
"96% Hooch with no Lead you'll ever know about !"
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Molecular Manipulations
Hazard to Others
Posts: 447
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Mood: High on forbidden fruit
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Why not just copper or nickel plate your brass? Very simple to do and cheap.
-The manipulator
We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know. -W. H. Auden
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AJKOER
Radically Dubious
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Some toxicity statistics from the CDC on select Lead salts (link: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/7439921.html ):
"ACUTE TOXICITY DATA:
Lethal dose data:
Species Reference Route LD50 (mg/kg) LDLo (mg/kg) Adjusted LD Derived value
PbO Dog Flury and Zernik 1935 oral ----- 1,400 9,114 mg Pb/m3 911 mg Pb/m3
PbC4H6O4 Dog Flury and Zernik 1935 oral ----- 300 1,344 mg Pb/m3 134 mg Pb/m3
PbCl2 G. pig Budavair 1989 oral ----- 1,500 7,770 mg Pb/m3. 770 mg Pb/m3
Pb(NO3)2 G.pig Tartler 1941 oral ----- 500 2,205 mg Pb/m3. 221 mg Pb/m3
Pb(CN)2 Rat NRC 1953 i.p. ----- 100 560 mg Pb/m3 56 mg Pb/m3
Human data: It has been reported that 714 mg/kg of lead acetate (i.e., about 450 mg/kg of lead) is the lethal oral dose [Takahashi 1975]. [Note: An
oral dose of 450 mg Pb/kg is equivalent to a 70-kg worker being exposed to 21,000 mg Pb/m3 for 30 minutes, assuming a breathing rate of 50 liters per
minute and 100% absorption.]
Revised IDLH: 100 mg Pb/m3
Basis for revised IDLH: No inhalation toxicity data are available on which to base an IDLH for lead compounds. The revised IDLH for lead compounds is
100 mg Pb/m3 based on acute oral toxicity data in humans [Takahashi 1975] and animals [Flury and Zernik 1935]. [Note: OSHA currently requires in 29
CFR 1919.1025 that workers be provided with and required to wear and use the "most protective" respirators in concentrations exceeding 100 mg Pb/m3
(i.e., 2,000 ´ the current OSHA PEL of 0.05 mg Pb/m3).]"
My take on the above is that the toxicity of Pb varies greatly depending on the Lead salt in question. The more soluble in general the greater the
risk. Here is a solubility reference of Lead salts in water, HCl,... https://books.google.com/books?id=d1JMAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA357&...
Unfortunately, in our case here, the actetate form of Lead, formed in fermented wines and such, is more problematic.
My point here is knowing the elemental amount of Pb present should be combined with information on the likely Lead salt ingested as well.
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blogfast25
International Hazard
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Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER  | Some toxicity statistics from the CDC on select Lead salts (link: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/7439921.html ):
"ACUTE TOXICITY DATA:
Lethal dose data:
Species Reference Route LD50 (mg/kg) LDLo (mg/kg) Adjusted LD Derived value
PbO Dog Flury and Zernik 1935 oral ----- 1,400 9,114 mg Pb/m3 911 mg Pb/m3
PbC4H6O4 Dog Flury and Zernik 1935 oral ----- 300 1,344 mg Pb/m3 134 mg Pb/m3
PbCl2 G. pig Budavair 1989 oral ----- 1,500 7,770 mg Pb/m3. 770 mg Pb/m3
Pb(NO3)2 G.pig Tartler 1941 oral ----- 500 2,205 mg Pb/m3. 221 mg Pb/m3
Pb(CN)2 Rat NRC 1953 i.p. ----- 100 560 mg Pb/m3 56 mg Pb/m3
Human data: It has been reported that 714 mg/kg of lead acetate (i.e., about 450 mg/kg of lead) is the lethal oral dose [Takahashi 1975]. [Note: An
oral dose of 450 mg Pb/kg is equivalent to a 70-kg worker being exposed to 21,000 mg Pb/m3 for 30 minutes, assuming a breathing rate of 50 liters per
minute and 100% absorption.]
Revised IDLH: 100 mg Pb/m3
Basis for revised IDLH: No inhalation toxicity data are available on which to base an IDLH for lead compounds. The revised IDLH for lead compounds is
100 mg Pb/m3 based on acute oral toxicity data in humans [Takahashi 1975] and animals [Flury and Zernik 1935]. [Note: OSHA currently requires in 29
CFR 1919.1025 that workers be provided with and required to wear and use the "most protective" respirators in concentrations exceeding 100 mg Pb/m3
(i.e., 2,000 ´ the current OSHA PEL of 0.05 mg Pb/m3).]"
My take on the above is that the toxicity of Pb varies greatly depending on the Lead salt in question. The more soluble in general the greater the
risk. Here is a solubility reference of Lead salts in water, HCl,... https://books.google.com/books?id=d1JMAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA357&...
Unfortunately, in our case here, the actetate form of Lead, formed in fermented wines and such, is more problematic.
My point here is knowing the elemental amount of Pb present should be combined with information on the likely Lead salt ingested as well.
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On your last point, it's unlikely the accompanying anion affects the toxicity of Pb<sup>2+</sup>(aq) much, if at all.
Far more important than the LD50 is the cumulative nature of lead in the human body. Long time, low level exposure to lead eventually causes toxicity.
See e.g. the alarming lead levels in children's teeth, during the use of tetraethyl lead as an anti-knocking agent.
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