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Sickman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Nicodem
A simple cleavage with ~30% H2SO4 at reflux might also give some interesting products, but they would not be easy to extract. |
Yea! Sulfuric Acid + Wood = Charcoal!
I discovered that when I once used a wooden spoon to stir a mixture of H2SO4 and Asprin. You get charcoal and smoke!
You could get the same result by simply lighting the wood on fire or cooking it in a hot oven!
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neutrino
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Only very concentrated acid does that, I'd say >90%. 30% isn't nearly strong enough to dehydrate organic matter like that.
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Nicodem
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| Quote: | | Yea! Sulfuric Acid + Wood = Charcoal! |
I was not talking about wood but lignin. Wood is mostly cellulose which like any carbohydrate carbonizes with conc. H2SO4 (but not with 30% H2SO4).
Lignin is a minor component of wood and is not a carbohydrate (see Chemoleos' post at the begining of the thread).
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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Sickman
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Well, then if you insist a less concentrated solution of sulfuric acid would not turn this major wood component to charcoal, what exaclty do you hope
it will do to it?
I still don't see how you are going to get from a sulfonated lignin, which is a mixture of coniferyl, p-coumaryl and sinapyl alcohols in varying
ratios in different plant species, 2,4,6-Trinitrophenol or styphnic acid or anything that remotely resembles a high explosive.
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Nicodem
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Sikman, you would get nothing that even "remotely resembles a high explosive". If you would have read the whole thread you would have noticed that my
post was an answer to Nuclear's post:
| Quote: | Nicodem, nitration of lignin isn´t my intention.
Maybe you know other better oxidising or reducing reagents for destruction polymer chain? |
And I never mentioned any "sulfonated lignin". I don't quite understand where you got that from (you seam not to like the idea of dilluted H2SO4 ). Liginin is also not a mixture of those compounds you mentioned in any "varying
ratios", but a complex crosslinked polymer different from plant to plant (again, check the Chemoleo's post at the begining of the thread where an
example of a partial structure is given).
Anyway, the confusion obviously comes from the topic being changed from the point where the typographical error from the first post was dicovered. I'm
afraid this also makes my last couple of posts as off topic, since they have nothing to do with picric acid.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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Sickman
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My mistake Nicodem, you sound like a brilliant person!
I just started to doubt you when I thought you were saying you could still get picric acid from wood.
So I'm sorry for my own confusion!
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