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Etaoin Shrdlu
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So a long chain of definitely repeating units is okay?
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aga
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No.
A polymer violates the Spirit of the Competition.
The idea is to make a single, non-polymeric compound, complex (and/or hydrate) with lots of mass.
Making polymers would be tantamount to cheating.
Edit :
It was me that missed the joke this time ES. DOH !
[Edited on 15-11-2014 by aga]
[Edited on 15-11-2014 by aga]
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Brain&Force
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You people know what I mean!  
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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Amos
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Tsjerk has asked what the definition of a polymer is three different times in this thread. No wonder I have déjà vu...
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blogfast25
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Unfortunately we don't, Sir. For instance if someone managed to synth a low MW polymer (say MW = 5000), wouldn't that be allowed? I mean, how cool
would it be if a backyard chemist prepared a low MW polyethylene (e.g.) with OTC materials!
Question: will the amount of prize money be published as more participants donate? That could make it very attractive to other possible participants,
thereby increasing the money pool even more!
And then there's this that worries me (from the OP):
Extensions I can see the point of but reductions? That could cut someone's considerable effort completely off, on the basis of some whim!
I will publish the competition on my blog, with invites to join.
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by blogfast25]
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bismuthate
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Reductions will only be used if nobody has interest in or is working on a project for this competition. We'll ask in this thread if anybody wants it
too remain open multiple times.
Thanks for the support!
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by bismuthate]
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by bismuthate]
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blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by bismuthate  | Reductions will only be used if nobody has interest in or is working on a project for this competition. We'll ask in this thread if anybody wants it
too remain open multiple times.
Thank's for the support!
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Great, ta. I've now linked to the challenge, may it bring in a few more takers.
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Mesa
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Without meaning to beat a dead horse, can you give a bit more info on the definition of a polymer within the scope of the competition?
I've got all the required reagents to produce a few different heteropolyacids with molecular weights of about 3,000g/mol. They also form complex's
with certain organic/inorganic compounds(the heaviest I've found that provided a structure was about 50,000g/mol.)
The polyacids are all described as either monomers or dimers in lit. and my understanding is that polymers and complex's are mutually exclusive
properties however It kinda feels like I'd be "violating the Spirit of the Competition." Or at the very least, interpretting the rules fairly
subjectively .
I'd prefer not to commit to wasting the H3PO3 I have left without reason as well.
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Brain&Force
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Thanks for featuring us!
The amount of prize money will be updated as well so people know what's at stake.
As for the definition of a polymer in this challenge...someone help me...
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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Tsjerk
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Sorry for same post over and over, something must have gone wrong somewhere. At least I didn't do it on purpose.
I found the answer in the complete rules though, first I only read the rules in the first post.
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Brain&Force
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Basically, excluding proteins and DNA you must give a molecule with a definite formula. You can link things together as long as you can tell us just
how many things were linked together.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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The Volatile Chemist
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Right. Mesa, be sure to read the rules in the Google docs document. I'm not so certain as to how OTC your procedure is. And the whole problem of
polymers is simply that the competition is just NOT ABOUT them. It doesn't matter how cool it would be if it were OTC or if it were a short polymer or
whatever.
Regardless, anyone else gonna post?
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force | Thanks for featuring us!
The amount of prize money will be updated as well so people know what's at stake.
As for the definition of a polymer in this challenge...someone help me... |
Limit the number of times the same organic molecule can be attached through covalent bonds? It's a tricky question.
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Mesa
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@The Volatile Chemist: My original post was made with those points in mind, It wasn't an attempt to "cheat" in order to win/kudo's.
The restrictions regarding molecular weights of starting materials and polymers as final products is to keep the competition fun/interesting, and not
a "lazy free win" scenario.
Given that the highest mol weigh of the starting material I planned to use was a base element, I was in two minds as to which catagory(interesting or
lazy) it fell into.
The target compound(s) I had in mind is phosphotungstic acid, using tungsten metal and phosphorus acid. I assume the "poly" in heteropolyacid is
outdated nomenclature, given it is not a polymer.
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by Mesa]
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by The Volatile Chemist | | Right. Mesa, be sure to read the rules in the Google docs document. I'm not so certain as to how OTC your procedure is. And the whole problem of
polymers is simply that the competition is just NOT ABOUT them. |
Says who? You?
Polymers/oligomers are chemical compounds of high MW, so the competition may not be 'about them' but valid backyard polymer research within the rules
should not be excluded just because you say so.
The more things one arbitrarily excludes the more it feels contrived. Let it be as free as possible, that's the scientific spirit!
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by blogfast25]
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The Volatile Chemist
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| Quote: | | an attempt to "cheat" in order to win/kudo's. |
Of course not, I know.
Regardless, all of these sound interesting. Does making [Al13(OH)32]7+ count? 
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Mesa | @
The target compound(s) I had in mind is phosphotungstic acid, using tungsten metal and phosphorus acid. I assume the "poly" in heteropolyacid is
outdated nomenclature, given it is not a polymer.
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I do wish contenders would keep their ideas to themselves until after the competition and discuss any doubts with the organisers in private.
Play your cards close to your chest!
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bismuthate
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I'd like to know is what has over 50,000g/mol. That's insane
Also TVC feel free to make that if you can isolate only that aluminate
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by bismuthate]
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blogfast25
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Most high viscosity elastomers have MWs of over 200,000 g/mol,
Albumin is over 50 k, easy.
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bismuthate
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Albumin is a protein and an elastomer is a polymer so they don't count.
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aga
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The current Prize Pot should be disclosed at this point, or at least Soon.
Donators would know more if they disclosed their 'donations' along with their submissions.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga |
Donators would know more if they disclosed their 'donations' along with their submissions.
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In what way would they 'know more'?
IMHO submissions should be kept between the participant-donor and Rador. It would prevent people from submitting because someone else has already
submitted something that beats theirs. It would increase prize money and keep the suspense going. Later ALL submissions could be revealed and the
respective submitters post their write ups in SM.
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by blogfast25]
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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I agree with blogfast. Right now this competition is just going to trend upwards until it hits the top of a curve where everyone gets discouraged and
concedes.
I would like to see a running total of donations, though. That would probably help maintain interest. I donated and I doubt I'll even submit anything.
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aga
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An increasing Prize Pot would encourage Interest.
I meant that Donors should disclose their donations, so that those who can add up would have a clue as to the Pot size, rather than waiting for an
unverifiable disclosure by the organisers.
Edit:
I agree with bloggers.
All submissions should be secret until Disclosure Day, otherwise people might get disheartened with their sub-Mega gramme/mol submissions, and some
interesting chemistry be explored, yet not posted. 
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by aga]
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blogfast25
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Yes, agreed with ES and aga. Disclose if you donate, but keep the actual submission to yourself. Questions about allowability: ask Rador in private.
[Edited on 16-11-2014 by blogfast25]
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