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aga
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@praxichays : all that is lacking is the Fe2+ tests, and explanation of How : Rule #5
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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I'm cracking up so hard.
Does a bottle of anhydrous ethanol count as really high purity beer? 
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Chemosynthesis
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Aga, is it possible to post a procedure in advance to follow over the weekend?
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MrBlank1
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Reagent = IC ?
Theoretical solution, titrate then flocculate with CaOH, filter, gas with dry HCl to the desired concentration
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j_sum1
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Iodine Carbide? That's a new one on me!
http://www.abbreviations.com/serp.php?st=IC&p=99999
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Praxichys
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Edited again with the Fe2+ test. (Test for ANY Fe for that matter) C'mon banana! Praxi needs beer money. Wooo
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WGTR
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I have what is possibly the world's dumbest observation.
Fe2+ can be eliminated simply by adding a bit of hydrogen peroxide, and converting it all to Fe3+.
Somehow, I don't think this is what Aga has in mind...
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bismuthate
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@aga HCl is a strong acid so all of the HCl in solution would already have been disassociated. Therefor there would be no reaction
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bismuthate
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https://www.dropbox.com/s/qjat2zfx298tlwj/Photo%20Nov%2011%2...
Here: the addition of potassium ferricyanide gives no blue color.
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Brain&Force
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Rador Labs will have its own challenge starting November 15 and running until December 15. Protip - find some heavy metals.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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aga
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Bannana Time.
Praxichys Wins 1st Prize.
bismuthate wins 2nd, mostly due to creative rule bending.
U2U pp details please.
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aga
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Having sobered up and re-read Praxichys' post, there stands a great example of what i'm personally after.
In one post there is theory, procedure and photos concisely showing how to achieve the objective.
Suggestions for DAC #2 ?
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aga
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Suggestion #1
Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  | My proposal:
Synthesis of a 'pure' solid salt of the Fe(NO)<sup>2+</sup> complex cation. This dark complex forms when cold nitric acid is added to a
ferrous salt solution. I've never heard of any solid salts of it being isolated though.
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j_sum1
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Is this even possible? I haven't ever come across complex ions except in solution. (At least not that I can recall.)
I am not equipped to play at the moment but I will watch with interest.
(The last one was simultaneously hilarious and informative.)
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | Is this even possible? I haven't ever come across complex ions except in solution. (At least not that I can recall.)
I am not equipped to play at the moment but I will watch with interest.
(The last one was simultaneously hilarious and informative.) |
It's possible to prepare solid, pure salts of MANY cation complexes, no problem. Maybe not this one (but we don't know that yet), in which case prize
should go to the experimenter or team who proves it basically cannot be done.
Another 5 proposals to follow later.
"The last one was simultaneously hilarious and informative."
Hardly a challenge, though... 
[Edited on 12-11-2014 by blogfast25]
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bbartlog
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Would http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roussin%27s_black_salt qualify as a pure solid salt of Fe(NO)<sup>2+</sup>? Or am I confused about the
oxidation state here?
The less you bet, the more you lose when you win.
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WGTR
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For what it's worth, allow me to make some suggestions:
Next time, structure the project by phases. The first one would be a short period of time for interested parties to submit their proposals. A
general description of the materials and methods need to be included in the proposal. The proposals would have to be approved by the client (in this
case Aga) before experimentation begins. Certainly, someone could start experimenting early before receiving approval, but they will run the risk of
misunderstanding the task; or using unapproved methods, materials, or documentation methods.
The second phase would begin at a specific time (GMT), and end at a specific time. Pick some reasonable amount of time, perhaps a few days. This
would be the time to conduct the actual experiment and documentation.
The last part of the project would be ranking the participants according to how well they accomplished the task. Cost, documentation quality, product
purity, practicality, etc., could be used as guides, but these should be stated up front during the proposal phase.
This may make things more of a challenge, and provide more interesting results. Does anyone have anything to add?
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aga
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That sounds like a much better Plan WGTR.
I suppose people should suggest the experiments, then there's a vote on which one to do.
After results are in, they should be judged by peers to choose the winner(s).
Sounds like they will end up being Bigger (much more difficult) tasks, so may i also suggest that there can be more than 1 simultaneous 'challenge' -
the Biggies, and an occasion trivial that i throw in when extreemly drunk.
DAC and dAC respectively.
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Praxichys
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I second what WGTR said, but it could be simpler than that even.
Leave it open for about a week, then pick the best method/writeup. Otherwise it's just a race. If you want to get crazy about it, open a poll thread
when the week is up and we can all vote on which method was the best.
EDIT: Aga beat me to posing this!
[Edited on 12-11-2014 by Praxichys]
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plante1999
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I have an idea. Turning proteins into usable ammonia. Not only is it a reasonable goal, but many ways to acheive it. One would have to find a protein
source, hair, horn etc, and find the process.
The purer and more concentrated ammonia, the better.
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blogfast25
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The Fe seems to have a mixed (II,III) state. But it's an interesting find, thanks!
My other proposals:
1) KAlCl<sub>4</sub>:
With that precise composition (KCl.AlCl<sub>3</sub> it has a very low
MP (245 C) and is a candidate as a solvent for the non-aqueous electrodeposition of electropositive metals like REEs. Has already been discussed here
but no one has put their money where their mouth is. A 'how to' reference was posted on SM a few months ago.
2) Rb or Cs alum of Mn(III) sulphate:
Quite a challenge because of Mn(III) instability. Should be pretty coloured.
3) Ceric ammonium nitrate:
Attempted by me once but then abandoned, this not as easy as it may seem.
4) Isolating the hydrates of H<sub>2</sub>SnCl<sub>6</sub> and HSbCl<sub>6</sub>:
Both are strong acids and acc. Holleman ('Inorganic Chemistry') solid hydrates of both can be isolated.
===========
Someone mentioned 'a few days' but that seems far too short to me. As amateurs we have many obligations and can only work very part-time on our
projects.
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DrMario
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | | Is this even possible? I haven't ever come across complex ions except in solution. (At least not that I can recall.) |
Absolutely yes. In fact, most of those complex ions you've seen in solution, can be crystalized. Also, there's a whole huge lot of
insoluble complexes.
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DrMario
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I'm a bit fuzzy on the rules here, but I'll point out, not meaning to offend anyone, that ceric ammonium nitrate can be easily purchased. I'm looking
right now at an eBay seller (from the US no less) that's selling it fairly cheaply.
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aga
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If the Target product can be bought, that really does not matter.
The next challenge will require a write-up of how the product was made, in precise and photographic detail.
Simply posting a screenshot of the ebay listing, then an opened box won't win the prize money !
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phlogiston
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| Quote: Originally posted by aga |
I suppose people should suggest the experiments, then there's a vote on which one to do. |
Be aware that people can suggest a challenge that they have an (perhaps unfair) advantage in, or even something that they already accomplished.
Also, consider to use the opportunity to buy solutions/good writeups for practical problems many members have been struggling with in the past but
that are not necessarily the most difficult (rather than very difficult but 'academic' problems that are a of particular interest to only very few or
even just one person).
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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