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Pyro
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yes. why?
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Endimion17
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Huh, the plot thickens.
Although I don't see any real danger with careful and neat pouring of RP, I'd always choose steady transfer by spoon.
I'm trying hard to imagine the required conditions for spontaneous combustion of plain regular RP and I don't see them. I worked with fine grain RP
and powdered RP and never ever saw anything like it, even with stronger rubbing. Friction will cause pentoxide fumes and the smell of matches, but
that's it. If it was any different, matchboxes would be very dangerous items.
Your lab is damp, RP is always damp unless freshly prepared and kept in sealed containers... Static buildup is basically out of the question. It's not
like there was dry atmosphere and prolonged friction between dry powder and some polymer sheet so that sparks would occur.
Can you describe the container? Or take a photo of it...
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Fantasma4500
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wow.
quite some drama there.. well red phosphorus by itself is friction sensitive to some degree, but pouring it doesnt sound like a legit reason for it to
selfignite... i would go with WP contamination aswell..
but yes phosphorus is pretty good for creating some dense smoke (:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg7RR82NQOU
really cant imagine this inside a room!! always heard about the danger of handling phosphorus even in small amounts.. if you do this another time have
some water you can dump it in even with very bad accuracy..
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Mixell
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I am planning tu purchase RP and other stuff from the same supplier, if he will ship internationally of-course.
But yea, what can you expect when you purchase 300g of it for 6$...
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Adas
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Oh, you mean strzaly.pl? I was about to buy some red P from them. :| But that's not 32€/800g but 16€/900g.
Please tell us who the seller was, so we could be informed.
Rest In Pieces!
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plante1999
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Well, doctorofphilosophy and I baugth a 800g bottle of RP from the same ebay seller as Pyro, it should be here in a month or so... I will try to find
the link for it.
Found it:
http://www.ebay.nl/itm/EMPTY-BOTTLE-RED-PHOSPHOR-ROT-PHOSPHO...
[Edited on 9-4-2013 by plante1999]
I never asked for this.
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Pyro
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Wow! those are cool smoke grenades! they are commonly 200g, so imagine 4 of those in a small space, I couldn't see my hand 1ft. in front of my face
and could hardly see a light 3m away! Is that you throwing those grenades?
I was extremely lucky he collapsed on the stairs or i would never have found him!
Well endi, Transferring by spoon would have been messier, i opt for gently turning the bottle at an angle and use the Archimedes screw effect. My RP
was a free flowing powder.
And no pic. of the container for you, where the container was there is just a blackish spot. the damage was minimal, a burn spot on the table and a
black spot on the floor. Thank God the fire wasn't nearer to my bottle of propane! 10,5 kg of propane would be a nice complement to a P fire
All my glassware is clouded though, but that is easy to fix. I am worried about my hot plate. Any ideas on stopping it from being fucked by all that
H3PO4.
the air in there is clear, but a bit painful to breathe. tomorrow i'll start cleaning up.
I did wash about 30g in boiling water and filtered it. It's on the filter now, and i hope it won't dry enough to ignite. that brings me to a question
for you Endi, can I load it in a test tube damp and distill it damp as to not waste what tiny bit I have? I wrote a mad letter to the seller telling
him it's his responsibility to warn about WP contamination and asking for a new bottle as reimbursement.
Anyone who wants his name just PM me, he is an ebay seller.
It was really nasty in there, like some Vietnam film
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Mixell
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Yea, I was talking about strazaly, do you know what his international shipping policies are?
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Endimion17
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Quote: Originally posted by Pyro  | | Well endi, Transferring by spoon would have been messier, i opt for gently turning the bottle at an angle and use the Archimedes screw effect. My RP
was a free flowing powder. |
It shouldn't be messy. After all, using spoon won't contaminate the neck.
If it was free flowing powder, then perhaps it was super dry? Static electricity comes back to mind.
| Quote: | | And no pic. of the container for you, where the container was there is just a blackish spot. the damage was minimal, a burn spot on the table and a
black spot on the floor. Thank God the fire wasn't nearer to my bottle of propane! 10,5 kg of propane would be a nice complement to a P fire All my glassware is clouded though, but that is easy to fix. I am worried about my
hot plate. Any ideas on stopping it from being fucked by all that H3PO4.the air in there is clear, but a bit painful to breathe. tomorrow i'll start
cleaning up. |
So everything burned down? Almost 800 g burned down? Jesus have mercy... 
I'd recommend opening the window slightly, let the breeze do its work for a few days, and then wipe everything.
I doubt your hotplate will suffer a lot. Phosphoric acid should will passivate any exposed iron. Just to be sure, wipewipewipe, dry, apply WD-40.
| Quote: | | I did wash about 30g in boiling water and filtered it. It's on the filter now, and i hope it won't dry enough to ignite. that brings me to a question
for you Endi, can I load it in a test tube damp and distill it damp as to not waste what tiny bit I have? I wrote a mad letter to the seller telling
him it's his responsibility to warn about WP contamination and asking for a new bottle as reimbursement. |
If you think ignition might occur, secure it with something impossible to ignite. I'd put it in a steel bucket in the middle of the room.
Slight water content is not a problem as long as you heat it very gently to avoid frothing and excessive translation of the material in the retort. In
fact, liberated water vapor will push out most of the air, so the usual initial ignition probably won't happen.
Damn, this is hilarious. Illiterate and funny. "I'm sure you understand." LOL
There's even a serial number. That's not very smart. Those numbers make it traceable.
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Mailinmypocket
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Oh my... 800g of RP to our good old Canada eh? I'm anxious to hear how customs deals with it! Although not as paranoid as the US, I'm not sure how
almost a kilo of the stuff will jive with them.
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plante1999
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Well, hopefully doctorofphilosophy send him what I told him. I told the guy to send it as iron III oxide and we dealed outside of ebay, since we
didn't wanted to be tracked down.
I never asked for this.
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Pyro
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Seems he bent his HKPD cuff links when he collapsed. No more blood for now, everything seems better.
Endi: we thoroughly enjoyed the spanish inquisition, we had laughing fits followed by coughing fits
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Mixell
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plante, don't think that the customs employees are easily fooled...
They have equipment that can easily detect traces of drugs and precursors, and disposable test kits for verification.
Trying to fool them on such matters may have more serious consequences than just package seizure.
If it's not strictly forbidden, then just send it as what it is and hope for the best. If you try to trick them, they will assume you have something
to hide.
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Pyro
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Oh it is strictly forbidden in CAN.! but my package got opened, the seller had wrapped the bottles in black plastic, customs opened it and must have
seen the clearly marked bottle stating it was P, they just closed it up and sent it to me!
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plante1999
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Well, I had shipped things that should not be "allowed" and I don't think they find out... Canada is not strict like US taught.
The shipper could also have shipped it without my consent... Or someone is trying to get me locked down...
I never asked for this.
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Magpie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pyro | Seems he bent his HKPD cuff links when he collapsed. No more blood for now, everything seems better.
Endi: we thoroughly enjoyed the spanish inquisition, we had laughing fits followed by coughing fits |
I'm glad to hear that your dad is getting better. Here's some more inquisition fun to cheer him up. It's one of my favorites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUMkcBctE7c
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Pyro
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hey, thanks!
here's something funny, real story:after I dragged him outside the first thing he did (after having a cough) was to start wiping off his suit ''Oh
shit, look at my suit, it was really expensive!'' It just felt so out of place to after you just almost died to start worrying about your suit. but
It's all dusted off and the cufflink can be fixed.
And this is copied from skype between plante and I:
[4/9/2013 1:42:33 AM] FGD: you know you may be dying while we talk...
[4/9/2013 1:43:17 AM] Alexander Birra: I guess that's another way out of the desperate situation in which i find myself
But he's still not out of the woods!
thanks for all the feedback.
[Edited on 10-4-2013 by Pyro]
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woelen
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Pyro, good to read that this near-drama did not end in a full drama. Let's all consider this as a serious warning about the use of impure red P. Pure
red P only has a faint smell of white P, which is noticeable clearly, but not overwhelming and definitely does not self-ignite on contact with air.
I have done an experiment with red P to see how it behaves on storage. I have taken a sample of 5 grams (my red P is a dark red/brown/purple powder
with a weak odour) and put this in a glass beaker at a dust-free place in direct contact with air. It already is there for more than a year and it has
become somewhat wet in that time, but it did not liquefy and still burns well when ignited. It cannot be easily mixed with other chemicals though,
because it is sticky. This is exactly what Endimion17 describes. Red P slowly reacts with air over the months (or even years!) and becomes wet. I
expected this reaction to be much faster. I still have the sample of red P standing there, and I'll leave it like that for another long time, just to
see what happens.
Also, red P is quite flammable, but I need heating to well over 200 C before it inflames. So, there is nothing like spontaneous ignition at room
temperature. Pyro's sample of red P must indeed have been contaminated with lots of white P.
[Edited on 10-4-13 by woelen]
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Pyro
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Update:
I went to my lab, there are no fumes anymore. but EVERYTHING is coated in a thick layer of sticky H3PO4. any tips for cleanup?
here are pictures of the damage:
This is the floor where the bottle was, RIP
This is the table where I dropped the bottle before it rolled off.
This is a bottle containing S, the bottle is identical to the one that had the RP in it
This is the bottle I was pouring the RP in to. It seems like I will be able to recover a good amount.
this one is my first ever batch of WP,l not bad for a beginner! pure nerd porn!
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Eddygp
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pyro | Well, I held my breath most of the time or breathed through a damp cloth, but got a few big lungfuls while dragging him up the stairs. now I feel
fine, must have been anxiety.
to clear up on the ''pouring'' thing, I held the neck of the RP bottle just above the neck of the empty bottle, and was gently turning it to make the
powder fall into the smaller bottle. I have no idea how big the burst came to be, It was right in front of me, so maybe it wasn't that big. the hot
plate was maybe 1m away.
The smell might of been intense, but that was the first time I had smelt WP so I had no idea how strongly it smelt. there was no fuming.
I don't see how this might be MY fault Endi.
I feel fine now, he has a little pain breathing. I might go check today to see if the smoke has settled, otherwise i'll check tomorrow.
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These mistakes are very harmful for your health... I don't mean you could have predicted it or not done that whatsoever, but I know of a man who died
because of inhaling asbestos, a woman who died because of inhaling hlorine (NaClO+HCl, you can imagine)... and, well I suppose this is no nonsense
either. Hope it's all right!
there may be bugs in gfind
[ˌɛdidʒiˈpiː] IPA pronunciation for my Username |
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Pyro
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update.
I got this from the seller after sending him a letter explaining what happened:
Hello,
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND!
I packed and shipped nearly 1,000 bottles. there was no problem.
I do not have and never sold the white phosphorus!
I'm getting into very clean. I know what is the red phosphorus! there is no possibility of contamination with me!
I think that you know how to do the red phosphor!
when you buy other items once you join free 400g phosphor red.
it is impossible to me to contaminated red phosphorus!
anybody who speaks polish and can make a little sense from this? i think it right from google translate
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DraconicAcid
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pyro | update.
I got this from the seller after sending him a letter explaining what happened:
Hello,
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND!
I packed and shipped nearly 1,000 bottles. there was no problem.
I do not have and never sold the white phosphorus!
I'm getting into very clean. I know what is the red phosphorus! there is no possibility of contamination with me!
I think that you know how to do the red phosphor!
when you buy other items once you join free 400g phosphor red.
it is impossible to me to contaminated red phosphorus!
anybody who speaks polish and can make a little sense from this? i think it right from google translate |
I don't speak Polish, but it makes sense to me. He doesn't understand how what he sold could have burst into flames. He's sold nearly a thousand
bottles of red phosphorus and never had a problem. He doesn't sell white phosphorus, so it's impossible that he sent you a bottle of the wrong
material. His stuff is never contaminated (don't we always believe that our work is always perfect?). You must have mishandled the red phosphorus
for it to burn like that.
And if you order another batch of chemicals, he'll throw in a bottle of red phosphorus for free.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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Pyro
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riiight...
this just in:
OK
you are in my 400g red phosphor for free. I will be most careful.
but you can also watch the phosphor rot! It can be bad in you and in me!
Greet. [DELETED]
think he might just want to give it to me  , maybe.
it's not 800g, but better than nothing
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DraconicAcid
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pyro |
you are in my 400g red phosphor for free. I will be most careful.
but you can also watch the phosphor rot! It can be bad in you and in me! |
He will check the bottle to make sure he's not sending the wrong stuff or a contaminated bottle. You have to be careful with red phosphorus (not just
the white), as it, too, can be very dangerous.
(I'm assuming "rot" is a typo or mistranslation of "red", as in German, rather than him claiming that red phosphorus will decompose....)
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
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Pyro
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how do you figure that?
I just hope it gets replaced. I don't see why I have to order something to get it! i guess i'll have to fight
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