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Author: Subject: Possibility of sulphuric acid?
Saerynide
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[*] posted on 26-4-2004 at 04:00


Eeeee... Im not touching that :D

No H2SO4 is better than no life! :P




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[*] posted on 26-4-2004 at 06:03


Quote:
SO2Cl2 + 2H20 --> H2SO4 + 2HCl

Sulphuryl chloride can be made by reacting SO2 with Cl2 over activated charcoal or something of that extent. When mixed with water it is the identical overall reaction as when you bubble SO2 though water with Cl2. The overall effect in both cases is the Cl2 oxidizes the SO2. SO2Cl2 might even be an intermediate in the reactionary scheme of things.

I also saw a reaction over at physicsforums that thunderfvck mentioned:

3H2SO3 --@150C--> 2H2SO4 + S + H2O

It was just interesting in that I had never saw it before.

Edit: Went to the library and saw some interesting information. Here is just a spiel of it. Electrolysis of monohydrated sulfur trioxide, aka 100% H2SO4 can be accomidated to facilitate just the electroysis of water overall leading to oleum solutions. The decomposition point of ferrous sulfate can be reduced by the addition of a small amount of magnesium sulfate and small amounts of sand for furnishing SO3. Reduction of calcium sulfate with carbon in stoichiometric amounts leads to the formation of CO2/CO/SO2 with SO2 being almost quantitive. Sulfuric acid is formed by the action of oxidizing agents on the polythionic acids and on the thiosulfates. F.P. van Denberg made SO3 by the electrolysis of molten CaSO4!

[Edited on 4/26/2004 by BromicAcid]




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[*] posted on 27-4-2004 at 01:33


Good info there, very useful...:D i will just go and look up some more..



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[*] posted on 27-4-2004 at 04:58


Is it really worth killing yourself just to get hold of H2SO4?



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[*] posted on 28-4-2004 at 03:12


Nope, i am just looking for all possible different ways to make H2SO4. As the processes are small scale at home, i will have to combine several processes at once to get the most out of it.



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[*] posted on 1-5-2004 at 00:57


Going back to the earlier point about adding phosphuric acid to aluminium sulphate to get sulphuric acid, can the same be done to magnesium phosphate? That is, how soluble is magnesium phosphate in water?



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[*] posted on 1-5-2004 at 01:09


www.chemfinder.com

magnesium phosphate, water solubility = 0.005 mg/ml




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[*] posted on 1-5-2004 at 01:28
Just my 2 Euro after a nasty incident


Gypsym calcium sulfate decomposed into SO2 at 900-ish degrees C. This could probably be harnessed and passed over a Fe2O3 catalyst, instead of deposited in my lungs.



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[*] posted on 2-5-2004 at 00:38


900 degrees!!??:o This not feasible here, my parents will be freaked out..



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[*] posted on 2-5-2004 at 07:28


Just make one of those at home carbon arc furnaces that I see in the older chemistry books. They have no outside indication that they operate at ludicrously high temperatures. Take a magnesium based pot and drill two holes across from each other and insert graphite electrodes. Place them so they are not very far apart and cement them in place. Run one wire directly to a wall socket and take the other and put a lead sinker on it. Take another wire and put a lead sinker on that and run that one to the wall. Now take a pyrex deep dish and fill it with a saturated NaCl solution. By varying the distance between the sinkers in the bowl you vary the power to the arc furnace. Mind you I have never attempted this but the old chemistry book I saw claimed nails could be easily melted so decomposing CaSO4 should be a snap! :D



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[*] posted on 2-5-2004 at 07:33


Good suggestion. A more expensive but perhaps more efficient way would be to use tungsten electrodes, about 10mm apart, and create a static plasma arc between them using an NST. That's actually something I plan to build soon: A plasma arc melting oven. No more carrying around huge heavy dangerous propane tanks. Must find a better refractory mix though, and the W electrodes won't be easy to find. Hmm, aren't they used in plasma arc spot welding....?

[Edited on 2004-5-2 by axehandle]




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[*] posted on 2-5-2004 at 09:02


On the note of electric arcs - it is actually quite easy to do, at least on a small scale.
The main restriction is a massive transformer.
Then pretty much go ahead as bromic described. I had a 120A/42V transformer, a massive fire cement block with the chamber in the middle, and two holes for the electrodes.
Always WEAR THICK sunglasses when doing this, the light is extremely bright, like a 500W halogen light reduced to a single small spot.
Anyway, I got the fire cement melted to a thin liquid within few seconds - even though it was 2-3 cm away from the actual arc!
Needless to say, I made some calcium carbide this way... within a few seconds.




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[*] posted on 2-5-2004 at 10:04


You dont need an transformer. A saltwater rheostat will suffice and works well.

A transformer is technically wrong anyways - you want a ballast for arc furnaces as the problem of arcs is that as soon the arc strucks the resistance drops to near zero and this will blow any fuse. Same as with HID lamps.

Uiiii, now we found the problem with your big transformer chemoleo! The problem is:
ABUSE
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[*] posted on 2-5-2004 at 12:31


Isn't 'abuse' the point of being a mad scientist? ;) - the transformer was never meant to be used for melting fire cement.

I don't understand the point of your post though :( -what is the problem with my transformer? The problem I mentioned in the 'massive transformer ' thread is of a completely different nature?!?




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[*] posted on 3-5-2004 at 02:21


As transformers are not found in Singapore can I make them myself, i plan on doing one anyway as a holiday project. I have been reading up on this and do think this is feasible? I know you all get your transformers really easy, but here.. sigh. Sometimes i regret a bit as to how Singapore was shaped..


Anyways, the electric arc method is good. I will implement it to create a mini melting furnace.




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[*] posted on 3-5-2004 at 05:16
MOT?


Are also microwave ovens not found in Singapore? They all contain something called an MOT (Microwave Oven Transformer), which can put out one hell of a current.

Btw, you'll need tungsten or graphite electrodes, and an inert protection gas. Nitrogen or argon is fine.


[Edited on 2004-5-3 by axehandle]




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[*] posted on 3-5-2004 at 08:11


LOL - you are telling me that transformers are not used in Singapore??? I guess you don't use electricity there... now that explains it! ;)



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[*] posted on 4-5-2004 at 02:32


WE do use transformers, is just that i am a amateur, i do not know the in and outs of all electrical equipment, and my movements are limited by my parents:(

edit: I found this!: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/science/article/0,12543,611070,...

[Edited on 4-5-2004 by darkflame89]




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[*] posted on 7-5-2004 at 02:43


What is saltwarer rheostat? I mean it just boils the salt water solution, doesn't it? How high temp. can it reach?

edit: sorry did not read too properly, i having a Biology test tomorrow. So, the salt water rheostat is used to regulate the current for the arc method described.

[Edited on 7-5-2004 by darkflame89]




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[*] posted on 7-5-2004 at 03:07


A salt water rheostat is a variable resistor consisting of two electrodes submerged in salt water. The resistance increases in proportion to the electrode interdistance. I think the brine will get quite hot and boil, I've never tried this myself, but boiled-off water should be possible to replace easily by adding tap water.

But be careful, OK? I don't mean to flame, but you don't seem to have much experience with electronics, and wall outlet AC can kill you of you treat it with disrespect.

PS: "brine" == "saturated NaCl(aq) solution"


[Edited on 2004-5-7 by axehandle]




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[*] posted on 8-5-2004 at 00:00


Yah, i understand that.. I don't know much about stuff like this..sigh..i need a full course on elctrical stuff..

Of course i will not plug straight to the wall plug w/o prior knowledge,:D

[Edited on 8-5-2004 by darkflame89]




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[*] posted on 8-5-2004 at 09:00


lol
so many wrong things i saw..



sorry but h3po4 is not a strong acid


the reactions to make h2so4 from so2:
you need a catalyst (v2o5) and high temperatures to make concentrated acid (dried acid, 100%),
you cannot make concentrated acid from so2 + i2 + h2o
you cannot make concentrated acid from h2s + i2 + h2o
you cannot make concentrated acid from so2 + io3 + h2o

you can make something ph = 1 but not less.
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[*] posted on 10-5-2004 at 13:18


Quote:

lol
so many wrong things i saw..



sorry but h3po4 is not a strong acid


the reactions to make h2so4 from so2:
you need a catalyst (v2o5) and high temperatures to make concentrated acid (dried acid, 100%),
you cannot make concentrated acid from so2 + i2 + h2o
you cannot make concentrated acid from h2s + i2 + h2o
you cannot make concentrated acid from so2 + io3 + h2o

you can make something ph = 1 but not less.

Ouch, my eyes! Please capitalize properly. Your point may be valid, but something like "i2" just sticks needles into everyones eyes....




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[*] posted on 11-5-2004 at 00:23


The resultant acid might not be concentrated, but you can always concentrate it by various ways like electrolysis.



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[*] posted on 11-5-2004 at 04:15


from acid ph=0.5 or something u got ph=0 ?

and from h2so4.10 h2o you can get dried or 1h2o h2so4 ???

plleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeee explain more

graphite electrodes? (i have :-)
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