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Beanspike
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I see it mentioned on here sometimes... what is E&W?
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Skean Dhu
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its the Explosives & Weapons(roguesci) forum, I'd venture to say that about 30% of the members here are also members at teh E&W forum
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FireFly
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Beanspike
I see it mentioned on here sometimes... what is E&W? |
http://roguesci.org then click "the forum"
N.P.
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Iv4
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Just going through old stuff(nothing better to do)but you all seem rather paranoid.No offense but AP is'nt nearly as sensitive as you make it ou
to be.Maybe it's because of the crapy precursers I have to use(like 6% h2h02 and h2so4 based toilet cleaner as catalyt).Anyway just to clear it
up AN and charcoal make a sort of blackpowder.
A while ago(few months)I heard some rumors about ANFO being set of by a few 100 grams of NC!Suposedly this was because after a few weks of soaking it
get's sensitive enough for that to hapen.I seriosly doubt this unles the NC was like a kilo so can anyone confirm this?
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madscientist
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Whether or not an explosive compound will detonate upon being struck (or spontaneously) is a matter of chance. Acetone peroxide is unstable enough
(thanks to those weak peroxide bonds) that it can sometimes detonate spontaneously.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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Iv4
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Ofcourse it's possible in theory but I've never heard of it hapening.Whatever AP we make at BS(used to I should as it seems permanently
down)is/was probably too impure.
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madscientist
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Plasma had cleaned acetone peroxide detonate when he placed it in a beaker of water.
Even with the more statistically common sensitivity, acetone peroxide is extremely dangerous. And bombshock never was an authority on these matters.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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Iv4
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In that I guess it's due to the sheer impurety just about everyone had(3-6% peroxide solvent grade acetone,etc).Either that or the spontanious
detonation killed them.
[Edited on 9-6-2003 by Iv4]
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Theoretic
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Lot ado with AN
You can detonate AN with any pyrotechnic mixture in a confined space. Even with a thermite. Heat detonates AN easily when in a confined space. Molten
AN is nicely sensitized by combustible liquids.
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Theoretic
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Lot ado with AN (continued).
Melt some AN, but control the temperature, soit doesn't decompose. Then take some copper wire or a copper coin (but please make sure it's
not steel coated with copper) and put it in. It will entertain all of your five senses. It will fizz vigorously, giving off lovely hot ammonia, water
vapour, nitrogen, oxygen and nitrogen oxides. Not all of the copper nitrate thus produced will decompose, and your liquid will turn a lovely blue
colour ( if you turn off the heat as soon as you drop in the coin).
It's all theory, as I deducted the above from the equation of the reaction.
Also, put two inert electrodes in molten AN
and watch as on one electrode, ammonia and water vapour is discharged, and nitrogen oxides and oxygen on the other.
Yee-haw! The fertilizer strikes back!
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Iv4
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Well NH4NO3 is said to detonate at 500C.The fielemnt in an incadesent lightbulb is at 1200 when white hot.
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Theoretic
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AN detonation
So... you can take a small, 2.5V (or something like that) electric bulb, carefully break the glass and use the rest with the filament for detonation
(in a confined space!).
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Iv4
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I supose so yes.Though their is the problem wheter or not the AN in the light bulb will be able to set of the rest of the charge.
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vulture
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There's no way AN will detonate from the heat of a lightbulb! Search this forum and roguesci and you'll see that there are many who claim it
can be done but never succeeded.
AN decomposes into H2O and N2O before the detonation reaction can even commence.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Iv4
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Yeah that's what my chemistry book says.But it also says that when heated the last of it explodes.
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vulture
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AN heat detonation only happens in VERY large amounts when the decomposition gases have caused an enormous pressure rise. I am talking about amounts
of 10 000kg and higher in a confined space with combustible material.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Iv4
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So it's still due to presure?
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vulture
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Yes. Very high temperatures and very high pressures and it is possible. There are some stories on the net about that ship that exploded in texas quite
some time ago. It burnt for days IIRC before it finally exploded.
But ofcourse, with flammable material, the oxidizing gasses coming from the AN might initiate a FAE explosion which then triggers the AN det.
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Iv4
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I assume it would have to be fairly large?
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Ramiel
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It's the largest non-nuclear explosion in history isn't it?
Caveat Orator
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vulture
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I guess it would be, considering the blast wave damaged property up to 20 miles away 
I wonder if there was any soul left in Texas city with proper hearing after that blast. Bwah, blast is a word too weak to describe it....
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Twed The Terrible
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00Buckshot, this could help you.
A good way to spot if AN is in a fertiliser, is to look at the back of the box. You are seeking a fertiliser that contains equal portions of nitric
nitrogen, and ammonical nitrogem. So if the back says
17.5% nitric nitrogen
17.5% ammonical nitrogen
you are right on. AN is present in the fertiliser. Oh, and DO NOT get ammonical and nitric nitrogen confused with ureic nitrogen, as urea is not what
we're after.
The ammonium nitrate products I have access to in the UK come in the form of 'Gem Nitrate Chalk' fertiliser, or calcium ammonium nitrate. It
is a mix of ammonium nitrate and calcium carbonate. Of course, not every brand of fertiliser containing impure AN will have calcium carbonate as the
contaminant, but due to AN's great solubility in water, it is usually possible to purify fertiliser by dissolving, filtering, and then
evaporating off excess water to obtain pure AN.
It is easy to remove the impurities from most fertiliser to produce pure AN, because the contaminants are not water soluble as AN certainly is. All I
do is pour the crude fertiliser (little brownish prills) into a pan, and add hot water to it, and stir a little while to give the AN time to dissolve.
Now, simply filter the AN solution. You don't need posh filters to do this, kitchen roll works fine. Just fold it over a few times to ensure it
doesn't break up under the weight of the AN solution it is filtering.
It is wise to filter multiple times until no visible residue of the impurity is present on the filter. Once you are satisfied the insoluble impurutues
are removed, allow the pan to boil for a good while until most of the water is gone. Do not boil the pan dry expecting to see AN crystals
precipitating though, as the AN will maintain a liquid form under high temperatures, and evaporate off, creating some nasty fumes, and going to waste.
It takes some practice to be able to tell when to stop boiling the water off, but here is a way you can tell.
Dip a metal spoon into the solution and then remove it. If white crystals form quickly, you should stop heating. If not, keep boiling.
When the water has been sufficiently boiled down, pour the contents of the pan into a different container and give the solution a minute to cool down.
During this period, you will see the formation of solid AN, as materials are much less soluble at low temperatures than higer ones.
It will look like a yellow liquid at first, kinda like piss, then as more and more crystals precipitate, the solution will become thicker and thicker.
Next, drive off all remaining water from the AN by heating it with a hairdryer. Fix one in position over the AN container and just let it do its work.
Don't put it on max setting though or it could burn out.
You will get a white, slighly yellowish tinted solid then. Store it in an airtight container (as AN absorbs water from the air), until ready for use.
Would you be interested in me adding pics to my process there?
Here is the product I extract my AN from.
I don't think ANAP mixes are that suicidal. ANAP performs well with only 8% AP, cap sensetive but not horribly dangerous as some people seem to
think. I have heard of people using 20% AP for ANAP mixes. This is easier to detonate but one would assume more dangerous.
(I know buckshot's question is from a while back, but the info may as well go here as anywhere else)
[Edited on 1-7-2003 by Twed The Terrible]
Pain is only weakness leaving the body
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DavidThePyro
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In case anyone was wondering, the NPK (nitrogen:phosphorus:potassium) numbers for ammonium nitrate are 34:0:0. This might be useful for anyone
looking for AN fertilizer.
DavidThePyro in the heezy fo sheezy.
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Madog
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with APAN, theres a problem with the AN being slightly acidic with the presence of water. obviously not too good, dont store it.
also, i wouldnt have too high a percentage of AP, sience with a lower percentage a shockwave going through the whole thing nicely is required to
detonate, a small section could be detonated with a shitty messy shockwave(like a bullet hit) but it wont spread too well sience its not nice
shockwave for self sustaining.
obviously, this means it is best to use round containers with a det in the middle.
i apologise if this post is repeated information
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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Theoretic
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Is it true that mixing Al powder, charcoal, fuel oil or the like reducing agent, you can increase its explosive power 3 times?
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