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12AX7
Post Harlot
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What about the NO3- going to the left and H+ going to the right, respectively? What does the center cell contain initially, and have you evaluated
the equilibrium concentrations (i.e., after an infinite charge flow- in practice, efficiency drops off considerably unless you have some way to remove
NO3- only).
Tim
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Rosco Bodine
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Question(#1) Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
(and).....
Question(#2) Why did the chicken cross the road?
(a) to find what was on the other side,
(or).....
(b) because the local chicken shaman claiming to
have the answer to Question(#1) was there
simply smiling, looking (pretending) as if he knew,
while peripherally noticing the oncoming truck which
would soon make the mystery moot by roadkilling
the curious and unknowing
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kuro96inlaila
Hazard to Self
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Can I synthesize copper nitrate from copper carbonate and 70% nitric acid?
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hissingnoise
International Hazard
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Yes you can - and copper metal too is attacked by 70% HNO3 . . .with evolution of NO2 . . .
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Rosco Bodine
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The same objective of using NH4NO3 as the source for the NO3 ion of nitric acid,
via conversion to a differing nitrate salt which does not form an acid sulfate when reacted with H2SO4 has also been an idea of mine. Two candidates
seem to have merit, Aluminum Nitrate and Magnesium Nitrate.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1851&a...
Calcium Nitrate, obtained as a raw material or gotten from reaction of hydrated lime with NH4NO3 could be a component of the recycle loop for removal
of the spent sulfate "niter cake" or sulfate containing nitric acid still residue. Sodium Carbonate or Sodium Bicarbonate might also be useful in the
recycle loop for a conversion of a soluble sulfate still residue to an insoluble metal carbonate or basic carbonate which may then be reacted with
NH4NO3 to reform the metal nitrate, ammonia being produced as a byproduct.
The point of this process would be to utilize both of the hydrogens of H2SO4 used in the distillation of a nitrate to produce HNO3 so that twice as
much HNO3 is produced as would more normally be the result of a process using a metal nitrate which forms an acid sulfate still residue. Another
possible usefulness and benefit
is that a smoother distillation of a much greater amount of d 1.5 HNO3 can be gotten as the principal product which comes over first in the
distillation, by virtue of the capability of the metal nitrate and/or metal sulfate byproduct to sequester H2O and break the azeotrope of the HNO3
being distilled.
Copper and Zinc could be workable as metal nitrates, however the potential complication which may be a problem is the formation of tetrammine copper
or diammine zinc complexes during the recycle reaction with NH4NO3. It could cause difficulty, problems or complications to find reaction conditions
where the ammonia byproduct would not be sequestered or interfere with the recycling of the still residue via NH4NO3. This is where the use of
Calcium Hydroxide to convert the NH4NO3 to Calcium Nitrate would likely be required.
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The WiZard is In
International Hazard
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Quote: Originally posted by Aqua_Fortis_100%  | | Quote: | Originally posted by YT2095 :
be very careful with Copper around ammonium nitrate, it can form an unstable salt (tetramine copper 2 nitrate) that can explode!
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What?!
Some persons says that this is a "primary" explosive , but honestly I never had any good results with it ! I make some grams of it a long time ago
with some fine Cu powder in NH4NO3 boiling solution + NH3 and precipitating with alcohol.. Drying well.. with a match flame a small amount merely make
a 'puff' with more than 10-20 seconds of strong heating.. Pretty insensitive!
(Actually I think it is only dangerous as contaminant for ammonium nitrate based explosives and some others)
NH4NO3 + Cu oxide/carbonate would be the way to go to copper nitrate.. Another , maybe better route would be CuSO4 and Ca(NO3)2 ..
Here Ca(NO3)2 is hard to find as agricultural supplement but is easily made from NH4NO3 + lime.. |
---------
Study Properties of Tetramino Cupric Nitrate
Phillips, A J
PICATINNY ARSENAL DOVER NJ
12 page(s)
AD Number: AD0629884
Report Date: 28 JUN 1943
From DTIC.mil search for AD629884
djh
----
The people of those foreign countries are very,
very ignorant. They looked curiously at the costumes
we had brought from the wilds of America. They
observed that we talked loudly at table sometimes.
They noticed that we looked out for expenses and
got what we conveniently could out of a franc, and
wondered where in the mischief we came from. In
Paris they simply opened their eyes and stared
when we spoke to them in French! We never did
succeed in making them understand their own
language.
Mark Twain
20 November 1867
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The WiZard is In
International Hazard
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Expand you horizons — make hydrated not copper nitrate.
djh
----
All sciences start with "stamp-collecting" - the patient accumulation
of multicoloured facts which are then stuck into an album until a pattern
emerges. This pattern is known as theory, and is used to predict other
patterns of facts, which may or may not turn out to be correct. Those
new patterns which do emerge are then used to create yet more
theory. And so the subject progresses.
A secret fear of many scientists, though, is that having started with
stamp-collecting, their subject will also end with it - that facts will
accumulate endlessly with out any new theory becoming apparent. And it
is a fear of chemists, in particular, that this has already happened - to
chemistry, Having explained in enormous detail over the last two
centuries which chemical elements exist and how they react together
to form molecules, all that has seemed to be left to chemists is to
make more and more of those molecules without advancing the
subjects theory.
Extracted from: The Economists November 30th 1996
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Random
International Hazard
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You can make Cu(NO3)2 by mixing CuSO4 and Ca(NO3)2. That way you will get aqueous Cu(NO3)2 insoluble CaSO4.
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AH-Poster
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Add a piece of metallic copper to bleach, then gradually acidify with dilute HCl using several small additions over the course of an hour. This will
make CuCl2. Add baking soda (NaCO3H) to make the copper precipitate out as CuCO3. Add more water to make sure everything else stays dissolved. Then
filter out the copper carbonate, rinse it with water, then dry.
As has already been mentioned, this can be heated with ammonium nitrate to form the copper nitrate. Ammonium Carbonate decomposes in hot water, so
simply heat a solution of CuCO3 and NH4NO3 to make it give off ammonia and CO2 gas. Unfortunately, the anhydrous salt cannot be made by heating the
hydrate.
"Copper nitrate, in combination with acetic anhydride, is an effective reagent for nitration of aromatic compounds, under what are known as Menke
conditions" Menke J.B. (1925). "Nitration with nitrates". The trihydrate could be used, it would just react with extra Ac2O. For some readers, Ac2O
may be easier to obtain than concentrated H2SO4.
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Doktor Klawonn
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| Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine | ...which may be a problem is the formation of tetrammine copper or diammine zinc complexes during the recycle reaction with NH4NO3. It could cause
difficulty, problems or complications to find reaction conditions where the ammonia byproduct would not be sequestered or interfere with the recycling
of the still residue via NH4NO3...
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Indeed. Copper oxide/hydroxide reacts with NH4NO3 to form tetraammine copper nitrate [Cu(NH3)4](NO3)2. If you try to remove the NH3, it will decompose
to copper oxide: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dll93iUUgc4.
Which means, that this synthesis idea for copper nitrate would not work:
| Quote: Originally posted by AH-Poster | | ...As has already been mentioned, this can be heated with ammonium nitrate to form the copper nitrate. Ammonium Carbonate decomposes in hot water, so
simply heat a solution of CuCO3 and NH4NO3 to make it give off ammonia and CO2 gas. Unfortunately, the anhydrous salt cannot be made by heating the
hydrate... |
Dr.K.
[Edited on 2-7-2011 by Doktor Klawonn]
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chloric1
International Hazard
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Actually this would be best since it’s just a neutralization react. Dissolving copper or any metal in nitric acid consumes too much precious nitric
acid. Think about it, two moles to oxidize copper to copper oxide and two more moles to dissolve copper oxide and make copper nitrate! That’s why
it seems to take so much acid to dissolve copper! I’m not sure if you can make silver oxide by electrolysis though so silver refining is an
exception.
BTW. Dilute that nitric acid to like 30% before you neutralize it! Nobody needs concentrated acid to make salts that way! Keep the 70% concentration
for nitrating organics or running difficult oxidation’s
[Edited on 6/28/2024 by chloric1]
Fellow molecular manipulator
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