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roXefeller
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Quote: Originally posted by underground  |
I will really be glad to learn what improvements can be done to this plastic binder in details. The starting materials looks very easy to found. Also
the procedure is as PIB ? You are going to dissolve them into the gasoline or other solvent ?
[Edited on 17-8-2014 by underground] |
We've probably had enough spoonfeeding on this for now. It might be best for you to research a little and understand everything we've provided.
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ganger631
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Yesterday, i tried making some nitrocellulose. After completing the nitration, i left the cotton to dry. After drying i set some off and they burn
like regular cotton. What did i do wrong here? I washed the cotton twice with distilled water and then used alot of baking soda to remove any
remaining acid.
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TheChemiKid
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Can you describe the nitration, and the amounts you used?
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ganger631
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13 ml 67 nitric acid and 18ml 95-98 conc sulfuric acid
i left it for 15 min in an ice bath.
[Edited on 18-8-2014 by ganger631]
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VladimirLem
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| Quote: Originally posted by ganger631 | 13 ml 67 nitric acid and 18ml 95-98 conc sulfuric acid
i left it for 15 min in an ice bath.
[Edited on 18-8-2014 by ganger631] |
i made some NC with those chems too (65% HNO3 and so on) and had very slow burning NC too...
its because, the NC is low-/undernitrated, afaik...(to weak HNO3 )
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ganger631
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Do you think i would be able to make some good ng or even some nc if i leave it for longer?
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VladimirLem
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my NC burned fast, but definitively not like the velocity that is known about "real" NC (around half/third as fast)...i made it at around 10-15C (+)
so, i guess, if you dont cool it so much, it will be better nitrated (but higher risc of runaway)...
if you dont have a destillery (95%< HNO3 brings best results), you could test a nitrate+H2SO4 mixture but i doubt this will result in much better
NC 
NC is fun to burn, but as an explosive its not really good, so i wouldnt waste my acids on making it (only as a propellant i would go for it)
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ganger631
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| Quote: Originally posted by VladimirLem |
my NC burned fast, but definitively not like the velocity that is known about "real" NC (around half/third as fast)...i made it at around 10-15C (+)
so, i guess, if you dont cool it so much, it will be better nitrated (but higher risc of runaway)...
if you dont have a destillery (95%< HNO3 brings best results), you could test a nitrate+H2SO4 mixture but i doubt this will result in much better
NC
NC is fun to burn, but as an explosive its not really good, so i wouldnt waste my acids on making it (only as a propellant i would go for it)
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Have you tried making some NG with it?
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VladimirLem
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you mean NC, right^^
with nitratesalt+H2SO4? No, thats the only way i would give it a try if i hadnt a destillery and really wanted to make NC....but the chances doesnt
seems really good...
the way with 95%< HNO3 is everywhere on youtube...
but if you just want to make small amounts, you could use an impro-destillery...just goolge
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ganger631
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No, i mean have you made some nitroglycerin with 67 conc nitric acid.Also forgot to mention my cotton had small redots.
[Edited on 18-8-2014 by ganger631]
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VladimirLem
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| Quote: Originally posted by ganger631 | No, i mean have you made some nitroglycerin with 67 conc nitric acid.Also forgot to mention my cotton had small redots.
[Edited on 18-8-2014 by ganger631] |
no, i havent made NG yet (and if i would make only small amounts)
why should i make NG with 67% HNO3?
with that weak HNO3 i would need to make it a 2 (maybe even 3step) step synthesis to get the TRI-nitrate of glycerine...
IF i was you, i would get some stuff like erythrol or manitol...this works fine with 65% HNO3+H2SO4...maybe much unternitrated material too, but the
yield is definitivly a powerful explosive and you have high yields...
and its a BIT (a LITTLE bit) saver (/to handle) than NG...
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Vpatent357
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| Quote: Originally posted by VladimirLem |
IF i was you, i would get some stuff like erythrol or manitol...this works fine with 65% HNO3+H2SO4...maybe much unternitrated
material too, but the yield is definitivly a powerful explosive and you have high yields...
and its a BIT (a LITTLE bit) saver (/to handle) than NG... |
And for PETN.. i can use 60% HNO3 + 96% H2SO4 with good result and yield?
Small blasting caps, fingers safe!
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NeonPulse
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| Quote: Originally posted by ganger631 | | Yesterday, i tried making some nitrocellulose. After completing the nitration, i left the cotton to dry. After drying i set some off and they burn
like regular cotton. What did i do wrong here? I washed the cotton twice with distilled water and then used alot of baking soda to remove any
remaining acid. |
You will need to wash it better than that. A while ago I made some NC and washed it for hours in a tricke of water and after that another
neutralization and washed it again. After it dried I tested it with ph paper and it still went red. Residual acid is stored in the hollows of the
fibres. Needless to say I deflagrafed the lot. Another batch I boiled it in a sodium bicarb sol and upon drying and regular ph testing it remains
neutral.
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Bert
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Nitrocellulose production & washing
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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VladimirLem
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| Quote: Originally posted by Vpatent357 | | Quote: Originally posted by VladimirLem |
IF i was you, i would get some stuff like erythrol or manitol...this works fine with 65% HNO3+H2SO4...maybe much unternitrated
material too, but the yield is definitivly a powerful explosive and you have high yields...
and its a BIT (a LITTLE bit) saver (/to handle) than NG... |
And for PETN.. i can use 60% HNO3 + 96% H2SO4 with good result and yield? |
yes, this works at pentaerytrol too
im not sure if the final product is the TRI- or TETRA-nitrate, but its powerful thats for sure and yields are okay: much less than at the 95%<
HNO3-nitration but still good...
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ganger631
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Can i make anything with hexamine and some 67% nitric and conc sulfuric?
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Bert
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You can make LOTS of things with those chemicals... Please specify a proposed procedure? Or a desired end product?? Or post a synopsis/reference/link
to some information that leads to your question???
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
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4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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ganger631
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bert |
You can make LOTS of things with those chemicals... Please specify a proposed procedure? Or a desired end product?? Or post a synopsis/reference/link
to some information that leads to your question??? |
I Was wondering i could make something like hmtd, but i dont want peroxides because ive heard its very sensitive. If you could give me a suggetion and
composition that would be great.
[Edited on 19-8-2014 by ganger631]
[Edited on 19-8-2014 by ganger631]
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Turner
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| Quote: Originally posted by ganger631 | | Quote: Originally posted by Bert |
You can make LOTS of things with those chemicals... Please specify a proposed procedure? Or a desired end product?? Or post a synopsis/reference/link
to some information that leads to your question??? |
I Was wondering i could make something like hmtd, but i dont want peroxides because ive heard its very sensitive. If you could give me a suggetion and
composition that would be great.
[Edited on 19-8-2014 by ganger631]
[Edited on 19-8-2014 by ganger631] |
Search search search...
You will get nowhere in this hobby if you are having to ask these kinds of questions
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Thanks for the article Solo,
Beware that the desired compound contains an aromatic ring but that the carboxylic function is not on the aromatic ring like in all the examples from
the article (Ar-CO-NHOH)
Ar-CO-NHOH<==> Ar-C(OH)=N(OH)
so the rearrangement leads to anilines (Ar-NH2).
Ar-CO-NHOH --> Ar-NH2 + CO2
In your desired molecule you have Ar-Alk-CO-NHOH
So you may end up with something totaly different but if the reaction proceeds following the same patern you would get a primary alkylamine.
Ar-Alk-CO-NHOH --> Ar-Alk-NH2 + CO2
The same can be acheived from amides via halogenation (Hofmann's rearrangement), from acyl azide via carboxylic acid via NaN3/H2SO4 (Curtius
rearrangement) or via R-CO-NH-NH2 upon action of nitrous acid.
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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solo
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| Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone | Thanks for the article Solo,
Beware that the desired compound contains an aromatic ring but that the carboxylic function is not on the aromatic ring like in all the examples from
the article (Ar-CO-NHOH)
Ar-CO-NHOH<==> Ar-C(OH)=N(OH)
so the rearrangement leads to anilines (Ar-NH2).
Ar-CO-NHOH --> Ar-NH2 + CO2
In your desired molecule you have Ar-Alk-CO-NHOH
So you may end up with something totaly different but if the reaction proceeds following the same patern you would get a primary alkylamine.
Ar-Alk-CO-NHOH --> Ar-Alk-NH2 + CO2
The same can be acheived from amides via halogenation (Hofmann's rearrangement), from acyl azide via carboxylic acid via NaN3/H2SO4 (Curtius
rearrangement) or via R-CO-NH-NH2 upon action of nitrous acid. |
....thanks, yes familiar with that advice I was just exploring the possibility of compacting the reaction and avoid the oximation, beckman, and
hofmann, however its inthe lab where things are proved and disproved.....solo
--------------------------------------------------------------
One-Pot Synthesis of Hydroxamic Acids from Aldehydes
and Hydroxylamine
Giovanna Dettori, Silvia Gaspa,
Article first published online: 20 JUN 2014
DOI: 10.1002/adsc.201400188
<a href="http://www.freeimagehosting.net/"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/OAVS8DW.jpg" alt="Free Image Hosting"></a>
Abstract
A one-pot oxidative transformation of aldehydes
into hydroxamic acids by the use of an
aqueous solution of hydroxylamine is reported. The
methodology gives high yields and makes use of
cheap, abundant and easily available reagents.
Keywords: acyl derivatives; aldehydes; hydroxamic
acids; hydroxylamine
Attachment: one pot synthesis of hydroxamic acids from aldehydes and hydroxylamine.pdf (291kB)
This file has been downloaded 1224 times
It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Another possibility for you is via ester:
R-CH=O -oxydation-> R-CO2H
R-CO2H -esterification-> R-CO2-R'
R-CO2-R' + NH2OH --> R-CO-NHOH + R'OH
But then it can also be directly
R-CO2H + HN3 -H2O-> R-NH2 + CO2 + N2 + H2O
or
R-CO2-R' + NH2-NH2 --> R-CO-NH-NH2 + R'OH
R-CO-NH-NH2 + HNO2 --> R-NH2 + CO2 + N2
or
R-CO2-R' + NH3 --> R-CO-NH2 + R'OH
R-CO-NH2 -Br2/NaOH/H2O-> R-NH2 + CO2 + H2O
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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Bert
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What is the DENSEST practical, storage stable CAP SENSITIVE ammonium nitrate explosive (with non explosive fuels/sensitizers) known to our members?
Looking at this patent for "foamed" dry AN with density from as low as .1 gram/cc, with descriptions of explosives compounded at well under density of
.6 grams/cc, I was curious how wide the density range of commercially viable mixtures might be?
http://www.google.com/patents/US3279965
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1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
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3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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solo
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| Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone | Another possibility for you is via ester:
R-CH=O -oxydation-> R-CO2H
R-CO2H -esterification-> R-CO2-R'
R-CO2-R' + NH2OH --> R-CO-NHOH + R'OH
But then it can also be directly
R-CO2H + HN3 -H2O-> R-NH2 + CO2 + N2 + H2O
or
R-CO2-R' + NH2-NH2 --> R-CO-NH-NH2 + R'OH
R-CO-NH-NH2 + HNO2 --> R-NH2 + CO2 + N2
or
R-CO2-R' + NH3 --> R-CO-NH2 + R'OH
R-CO-NH2 -Br2/NaOH/H2O-> R-NH2 + CO2 + H2O |
......thanks, the hydrazoic acid, or hydrazine route seems nice, but it's something i won't touch, but the other reactions are interesting....thank
you...solo
[Edited on 21-8-2014 by solo]
It's better to die on your feet, than live on your knees....Emiliano Zapata.
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Vpatent357
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Activated ANNMAL cap
I now know that ANNMAL activated and well-prepared can be a perfect and powerful secondary as ETN / PETN,
An experimenter in energetic vvideoupl said:
- Activated ANNM composition can be detonated with less than 100mg of lightly pressed HMTD.
- Activated ANNMAl composition can be detonated with less than 40mg of lightly pressed HMTD.
My question relates to making ANNMAL activated blasting caps, made just before use.
Activated ANNMAL can be hand-pressed without risk? and what is the critical diameter?
I intend to press 0,7-1g in a 1ml syringe, 6mm diameter with 0.2g Silver acetylide enough has its initiation.
I hope to find reviews on it or people who have experienced this interesting composition.
Small blasting caps, fingers safe!
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