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j_sum1
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Pressure cooking retains the water. That's the opposite of what I want to do. I want to convert my soft wet beans to something that is going to
combust at a high temperature.
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deltaH
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Blowing warm air through the beans for a couple hours with a hair dryer is probably your best bet in such foul weather. A big coffee tin with a hair
dryer-sized hole cut out on the bottom side aught to do the trick? Spousal endorsement may vary.
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j_sum1
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Biiiiiig coffee tin. The expanded beans come to approx 8 Litres.
I have a hooded BBQ that I can spread the beans out in a single layer and set to 100 degrees and process in a couple of batches. I think that will be
fine.
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deltaH
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Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1  | Biiiiiig coffee tin. The expanded beans come to approx 8 Litres.
I have a hooded BBQ that I can spread the beans out in a single layer and set to 100 degrees and process in a couple of batches. I think that will be
fine. |
Sounds great, but i'd try to aim for a lower temperature (~60°C), if the starch begins to cook, you might end up with a right mess 
[Edited on 26-2-2015 by deltaH]
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | | Pressure cooking retains the water. That's the opposite of what I want to do. I want to convert my soft wet beans to something that is going to
combust at a high temperature. |
I understand that.
What I mean is, pressure cook the beans, then remove the pressure valve, lower the heat, and carefully monitor the pot on the heat until the beans are
dry.
Pretend it was your turn to cook dinner, and you really wanted to go out to eat...
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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deltaH
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| Quote: Originally posted by Zombie | | Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | | Pressure cooking retains the water. That's the opposite of what I want to do. I want to convert my soft wet beans to something that is going to
combust at a high temperature. |
I understand that.
What I mean is, pressure cook the beans, then remove the pressure valve, lower the heat, and carefully monitor the pot on the heat until the beans are
dry.
Pretend it was your turn to cook dinner, and you really wanted to go out to eat... |
I like the idea of pyrolysing the beans in the absence of air to make soybean char. This should burn much hotter and vigorously than dried soy alone
and the fuel nitrogen should remain trapped in the carbon matrix so long as the pyrolysis is not unreasonably hot, which it won't be.
The barbie version would be to wrap the beans in heavy duty foil to make parcels and throw them straight onto the barbie coals... you know, same way
as making potatoes. If you leave them on for a long time, they should partially or completely char. The foil should keep air sufficiently out but
water vapour and pyrolysis gases should force their way out between the wrapping. Considering the number of time I'm managed to blacken my potatoes,
this shouldn't be too hard 
j_sum perhaps you could try both versions on your barbie simultaneously and see which one (or neither) performs better later in NOx
production.
Presumably, the resulting nitrogen content of the char would also be much higher than dry bean due to the loss of all the hydroxyl groups as water
(useless constituent calorically speaking anyhow).
Plus, when you light that char up with forced air, I wouldn't be surprised if it burns white hot like a bellowed smithy.
[Edited on 26-2-2015 by deltaH]
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deltaH
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Oh, forgot to say that a soybean char would probably take up a catalyst solution far more effectively... obviously it's not activated charcoal, but
nevertheless.
A future bean preprep methodology might be:
(1) Roast dry beans in a tin with small hole on a fire till black.
(2) Impregnate with catalyst solution.
(3) Air dry in the sun (being black helps here).
Sounds like we have the makings of an industrial process. Sustainably produced nitric acid at only *five* times the price 
Still, fossil fuels aren't going to abound forever...
[Edited on 26-2-2015 by deltaH]
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Zombie
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This got me thinking... Converting the starches in the beans into sugar...
I'm curious if sprouting the beans, allowing the enzymes to develop, Sparging them for an hour to convert the starch, and then soaking in your
solution, and drying would be a benefit.
You would have the added caloric value of the sugars. Whether it is worth the extra effort... IDK.
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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deltaH
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| Quote: Originally posted by Zombie | This got me thinking... Converting the starches in the beans into sugar...
I'm curious if sprouting the beans, allowing the enzymes to develop, Sparging them for an hour to convert the starch, and then soaking in your
solution, and drying would be a benefit.
You would have the added caloric value of the sugars. Whether it is worth the extra effort... IDK. |
No, I think you would be making things worse.
Hydrolysis of starch introduces water into the molecule (hence the word hydro=water, lysis=splitting) and so drops the calorific value, for example,
compare the heat of combustion of glucose (15.6MJ/kg)[1] to that of starch (17.3MJ/kg)[1].
Furthermore, even starch is not that great because it also contains plenty of hydroxyl groups. Pyrolysis eliminates these as water which is
why it ups the calorific value of the resulting fuel, compare for example with the heat of combustion of carbon (32.8MJ/kg). The better fuels are rich
in just C and H.
References:
[1] Kabo, G.J. et al. (2013). Thermodynamic properties of starch and glucose. J. Chem. Thermodynamics 59, pp.
87-93.
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_of_combustion
[Edited on 26-2-2015 by deltaH]
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aga
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Bean pyrolysis. Hmm.
Methinks i got a few Kg of beans and a Pyrolyser capable of about 10Kg ...
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blogfast25
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Aga:
I hope you're not thinking this is going to be easy. At the very least go back to the document that inspired this idea. The useless murder of beans by
burning them alive cannot be condoned. 
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blogfast25
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Ferment the sugar, distil off the EtOH to 95 %. Dry the rest of the beans, mix them with catalyst and burn them with the EtOH?
[bullshit off]
[Edited on 26-2-2015 by blogfast25]
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Zombie
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You're three steps ahead of me there.
(gazuntite)
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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j_sum1
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| Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25 | Aga:
I hope you're not thinking this is going to be easy. At the very least go back to the document that inspired this idea. The useless murder of beans by
burning them alive cannot be condoned. |
A flurry of new ideas. Unfortunately I have to keep this practical. I will get some time this weekend to do a bit but there are limitations. It is
unlikely that I will be able to compare different bean processing ideas for effectiveness. I might try processing the beans in different ways but it
is likely that I will only have time to do one furnace run and all the gases collected will be mixed.
Which probably means there is plenty of scope for someone else to do some experimenting. Remember, beans were free in my case and should be low cost
if they have to be purchased. the equipment I am using is literally junk. There is a multitude of helpful ideas being offered here. Thanks to aga's
generosity, the rewards are large. The only real cost is time. There should be other competitors active.
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blogfast25
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At such an embryonic state of development cold shouldn't be much of a concern. That's how Big Research usually proceeds. Cost can always be cut later.
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j_sum1
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"cold" blogfast? I think that's a typo.
_______________________________
For those following this saga; and I admit there are probably better things on TV, here is the latest update.
1.7 kg of soy beans have been soaked in a solution of copper sulfate and potassium permanganate. After a week of "natural drying" in questionable
weather conditions, they have been subjected to a few hours of slow drying on the barbecue at a temperature low enough to make them remain touchable
by hand. They lost just on10% of their original mass which corresponds nicely to a tested moisture level of 10.7%. They are now slightly larger than
they were when I got them. They are dark brown with the appearance of coffee beans. They are quite hard to crush and there is little visible
evidence of the manganese and copper compounds having soaked in to any appreciable degree.
Redesigned furnace has been constructed and a preliminary test of the new spray mechanism suggests that it will work well with the water able to be
recycled through the system. A method has been devised and tested for boiling down the acid to increase its concentration.
The latest hurdle however is a bit of a critical one. Soy beans do not appear to burn. Heating to high temperature with a propane torch does not
result in a self-sustaining flame. Nor does addition of crushed hexamine.
Two possible avenues present themselves from this point:
(a) charring the beans in the absence of O2 to eliminate all hydroxyl groups. I must confess that I have no idea what effect this will have on the
protein content and how much of the N will be lost. I accept that a char will have a higher heat of combustion and is more likely to sustain a
constant flame than uncharred beans. It is also likely that they will require a high temperature to ignite. Hopefully I won't need a coal fire to
get them started.
(b) run a test omitting the Mn or Cu or both. There may be some flame retardation occurring here.
(c) (Ok, so I can't count) Revert to peanuts at least for a proof of concept.
This third option is the least time intensive and will at least give a preliminary result. With that in mind I have purchased another 375g of nuts to
toast. I know they at least burn and burn hot.
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Zombie
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I'll buy you the chemicals, and give you 200. bucks.
Without a doubt... The thread has wondered from EASY!
U2U me an address, and win the prize. 
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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Zyklon-A
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Why not char about twenty grams of it and see if it burns. No point in waisting it all on something that won't work, but just speculating isn't going
to burn the beans either. Might as well give it a spark.
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j_sum1
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Charring 20 grams will take the same time as charring 200g. (I have got 3.4kg to play with and can get more if needed so I am not worried about using
it up.)
Dusting some peanuts with MnO and CuO will take almost no time. But either way, it is not going to happen this weekend.
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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Soybeans are known to undergo spontaneous combustion in storage. I'm very surprised yours won't burn even impregnated with an oxidizer.
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Zombie
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Spontanious combustion sucks...
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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j_sum1
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| Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu | | Soybeans are known to undergo spontaneous combustion in storage. I'm very surprised yours won't burn even impregnated with an oxidizer.
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Most spontaneous combustion scenarios are a result of moisture, the action of bacteria, a resultant increase in temperature and the presence of
volatiles. I think I have effectively eliminated all four of these.
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Zombie
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| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | | Quote: Originally posted by Etaoin Shrdlu | | Soybeans are known to undergo spontaneous combustion in storage. I'm very surprised yours won't burn even impregnated with an oxidizer.
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Most spontaneous combustion scenarios are a result of moisture, the action of bacteria, a resultant increase in temperature and the presence of
volatiles. I think I have effectively eliminated all four of these. |
You forgot Zombie juice. That is important! 
They tried to have me "put to sleep" so I came back to return the favor.
Zom.
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deltaH
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j_sum, while I am a fan of mildly pyrolysing the beans (bean charcoal), a quick fix might be to employ a mixture of beans and
ordinary charcoal in the furnace.
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Oscilllator
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If you have one, I would suggest using a heat gun of the type used to remove paint. The one I have can heat air up enough to turn wood brown, so I
imagine if you used this as a air source instead of a hair dryer you should be able to sustain combustion quite easily.
They can probably be bought fairly cheaply too, since they are essentially a resistor in front of a fan.
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