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bio2
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Police Seize Huge Cache Of Explosives From Colorado Home
Here is an interesting article I stumbled on today.
It sends somewhat mixed signals it seems.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/210607Explosiv...
Police Seize Huge Cache Of Explosives From Colorado Home, But Say It's Not Enough For An Act Of Terrorism
Winter Patriot
Thursday June 21, 2007
Flashback: Terror's Trivial When It's Not Muslims
A Colorado man is free on $50,000 bond after a police search of his house discovered a cache of weapons, explosives and volatile chemicals.
Ronald Swerlein of Longmont, CO, attracted the attention of his neighbors by setting off explosions in his garage. Police had been seeking tips after
several small homemade explosives were found in a local parking lot nearly three weeks ago.
A police search of the Swerlein home turned up hundreds of volatile chemicals and other weapons, as well as books about bomb-making and revenge.
Swerlein says he's been experimenting with various chemicals to use as rocket fuel.
According to reports from Colorado, police confiscated nitroglycerin, ammonium nitrate, PETN, thermite, and sodium azide, none of which are used as
rocket fuels. They also discovered laboratory-grade glassware worth thousands of dollars.
Ammonium nitrate is the basic ingredient in so-called fertilizer bombs; PETN is an ingredient in plastic explosives; sodium azide produces a toxic gas
when it comes into contact with metal; and nitroglycerin is a well-known (and extremely unstable) liquid explosive. Thermite, as most 9/11 researchers
know, can be used to cut steel and may have been involved in the demolition of the three World Trade Center buildings which disintegrated on September
11, 2001.
Police detonated the nitroglycerin in Swerlein's driveway.
Longmont Police Sgt. Tim Lewis said the police had seized "cartloads of weapons ... more than I have ever seen in our armory."
Despite the size of the cache and the volatility of the chemicals involved, Sgt. Lewis told reporters that Swerlein had not created enough chemical
explosives “for a terrorist action,” although he did have enough to damage his home and others in his neighborhood.
Sgt. Lewis also said, "This investigation is still in its infancy. We're still trying to determine what his intent was."
Considering that the perpetrators of the most extravagant terrorist attack ever committed on American soil were allegedly armed only with box-cutters,
it is incomprehensible that a cache of weapons and explosives larger than the Longmont police have in their armory could be described as insufficient
for a terrorist action.
How much nitroglycerin does one need to commit an act of terrorism? Or does that depend on one's religion or the color of one's skin?
And why has this case attracted so little national attention? Or does that depend on religion and skin color, too?
~~~
[selected links]
7 News (Denver), June 3: Homemade Explosive Devices Put Authorities, Neighbors On Alert
7 News (Denver), June 16: Homeowner Arrested After Explosives Found In Longmont
Longmont Daily Times-Call, June 18: Swerlein has first day in court
7 News (Denver), June 18: Longmont Homeowner Goes To Court In Explosives Probe
UPI, June 19: Homemade explosions land man in jail
Longmont Daily Times-Call, June 19: ‘Cartloads’ of weapons seized
Longmont Daily Times-Call, June 19: Police: Chemicals more than rocket hobby
Longmont Daily Times-Call, June 19: Suspect in explosive case out on bond
Longmont Daily Times-Call, June 19: Longmont neighborhood won't be evacuated
Rocky Mountain News (Denver), June 20: Longmont bomb team redeploys
Longmont Daily Times-Call, June 20: More explosives found
edit; added link to article
[Edited on by bio2]
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DeAdFX
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The only sort of "terrorism" involved so far is from the author mentioning the usage of explosives/thermite in previous forms of "terror" and the
mention of the parking lot explosives. At worst he might be out for blood and at best he is a red herring.
Shessh did some ass clown from the equal treatment of minorities write this? Well it seems the terrorists have become much more sneakier.
Outsourcing terror to your average everyday white Christian American eh?
Even if the guy is a terrorist does it matter? The media potrays muslims as terrorist inclined people. This incident will probably never get
national attention unless the guy in suspect does something drastic like pulling another OKC stunt... Either that everyone will be distracted by the
sales of ammonium nitrate fertilizer and those evil fertilizer companies that no one will give a shit about the loss of a few thousand americans.
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Pyridinium
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That article does nothing but sensationalize. The guy's having weapons could mean nothing- maybe he's just a gun collector.
I wish journalists would stop going over the edge on stuff like this.
I'm amused by the phrase "laboratory-grade glassware". As if use of the word "grade" can make it more sensational and outrageous. Oooh, arrest us,
we have "laboratory-grade" glassware. Kind of like "military-grade" explosives. Who exactly grades these things?
It is times like these when the media show how despicable they are.
EDIT: If, however, it is true that the man's "devices" were put in places like clinic parking lots and pickup trucks, then the guy is an idiot and
deserves to be grabbed. In that case, the authorities can't be blamed for doing something, in fact they'd really have no choice.
I still mistrust the media. That prisonplanet article is especially sensationalized.
Edit 2: It's statements like the following that really disgust me:
"Also, most model rocket enthusiasts use old kitchen utensils, not expensive laboratory-quality glassware, to experiment with fuels, he said."
I can't stand it when ignorant people make ignorant statements which are then reported as concrete fact.
So, if we put it all together, we get this: you have high quality glassware, you're a terrorist; you have low-quality kitchen utensils, you're a
meth cook.
[Edited on 21-6-2007 by Pyridinium]
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bio2
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...........That Prison Planet article is especially sensationalized..............
I agree with you but In fairness to Prison Planet the article was headed by
......Winter Patriot........(whatever or whoever that is)
Thursday June 21, 2007
This is what they (Prison Planet) do everyday; is place a compendium of articles on subjects of interest from various different sources.
Sometimes their comments are also included.
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Pyridinium
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bio2
...........That Prison Planet article is especially sensationalized..............
I agree with you but In fairness to Prison Planet the article was headed by
......Winter Patriot........(whatever or whoever that is)
Thursday June 21, 2007
This is what they (Prison Planet) do everyday; is place a compendium of articles on subjects of interest from various different sources.
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Ah, yes, I see now. It was Winter Patriot, not Prison Planet. And actually, it looks like much of the sensationalizing came from the original news
articles (big surprise there... well, not really).
I so far have read at least 4 of those news articles, and every one of them contains some distorted or hyped statement.
Here's a real gem, from http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/13525302/detail.html
" Police said they found more than 200 blasting agents and highly flammable fuels and oxidizers in the home..."
I doubt even the "pros" of the Energetic Materials forum here at SMDB have even 1/10 that many "blasting agents" at any given time.
I would bet money the media have based the "200" statement on a pretty standard journalistic-establishment tactic: every chemical that could remotely
be used in making explosives, or which could have some even marginally hazardous property, is being called "blasting agent".
The ploy is either stupid or disingenuous, take your pick.
EDIT: perhaps someone ought to drop a note to Winter Patriot over there, asking him to browse SMDB's "Legal and Societal Issues" (particularly this
thread) so he can get an idea of the "other side of the issue".
"Highly flammable fuels", now there's a good one. Paper and gasoline are both "highly flammable fuels".
I feel also a mixture of chagrin and amusement at the use of the word "volatile". Something is not "volatile" unless it has a high vapor pressure at
low temperature.
They have so mashed the meaning of words that they've become their own parody.
[Edited on 21-6-2007 by Pyridinium]
[Edited on 21-6-2007 by Pyridinium]
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vulture
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I didn't know sodium azide released toxic gasses in contact with metals...Somebody better recall those airbags! It also shows the insane lack of
research that the author didn't even figure it was probably being used to make lead azide.
[Edited on 21-6-2007 by vulture]
One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
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Eclectic
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I've had sodium azide without using it to make lead azide. What is insane is the insistence by law enforcement that NaN3 is an explosive. It's also
a sterilant and analytical and synthetic reagent. The reporter is probably just repeating what the "Barney Fife"s said.
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Pyridinium
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Eclectic
I've had sodium azide without using it to make lead azide. What is insane is the insistence by law enforcement that NaN3 is an explosive. It's also
a sterilant and analytical and synthetic reagent. The reporter is probably just repeating what the "Barney Fife"s said. |
I, too, had a pretty good sized bottle of sodium azide at one time. And I had no intention of using it to make explosives. It's actually great for
preventing microbial growth in biochem buffers.
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chemkid
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I doubt he would have been 'caught' if he hadn't set thing off in his drive way. If for example, I was going to through sodium in water (in a good
amount) the last place i would do it is in my backyard! Oh yeah, having a huge stock of guns doesn't help either! Probably could of have been a little
less stupid (nitroglycerin) and he wouldn't have gotten caught.
I have to sympathize with the police on this one. We just can't have people posesing/setting off large amounts of explosives.
Edit: In reading more of the articles I must admit some of this stuff is totally ridiculous:
During Tuesday's search, police found more items that can be used to make explosives, including vitamins, rock salt and fertilizer, Longmont Sgt. Tim
Lewis said
Oh no out law rock salt and vitamins!
[Edited on 21-6-2007 by chemkid]
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Eclectic
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The point is that he apparently did NOT have large amounts of explosives, he just had a few lab "events" that required him to air out his garage.
Once law enforcement makes allegations to the press, there is a mad scramble to find "evidence", rationality goes out the window, and it's "BURN THE
WITCH!!!"
Notice that there are no actual numbers? HUGE amounts, ENOURMOUS stockpiles, MASSIVE quantities.
The "nitroglycerine" was destroyed, probably with a blasting cap. Who knows what it was? Nitro-something? Something-glycerine, glycol, glue...
The key clue is that there is insufficient material for a terrorist event.
[Edited on 6-21-2007 by Eclectic]
[Edited on 6-21-2007 by Eclectic]
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Sauron
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Many people have a gallon or more of gasoline in their garage to fuel a lawnmower, plus turpentine, pain thinners, kerosene, naptha for igniting
charcoal for BBQ, etc etc. These are "volatile chemicals" that could and sometimes do damege their property and that of others in the neighborhood.
But no one paints the guy who mows his lawn, barbacues his steaks, or thins his housepaints as a mad bomber or arsonist. Nor should they.
On the other hand, I suspect that PETN and NG probably are illegal to manufacture and possess without requisite state and federal licenses and those
will demand proper storage (usually defined by ATF). This certainly applies to for example, black powder as sold for shooting replica and antique
firearms, for example.
Ammonium nitrate is still a fertilizer and so is potassium chlorare for certain kinds of fruit. Rural people often have commercial dynamite for
blowing stumps and that does not make them mad bombers either.
This guy just has a little PR problem and an overzealous police department on his case.
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The_Davster
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What is the basis for this "he just had a few lab "events" that required him to air out his garage."? I am assuming it is an applicable
generalization to the sensationalist media, or is there a more balanced article somewhere out there?
Excellent point on the lack of numbers Eclectic.
Using reporter logic:
1g of explosive is infinetly greater than zero, the ammount most people have. Infinity is pretty huge.
And thus we have "Huge Cache Of Explosives"
Volatile is the word in news that can be used to clue in on reporter crap. They use it whenever a chemical is mentioned.
Also, it was the police that detonated the supposed nitroglycernin in his driveway, not him.
Between a couple articles they switch between lead azide and sodium azide. Silly reporters.
[Edited on 21-6-2007 by The_Davster]
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froot
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If journalists were held more accountable for what they write in their reports then we could take them seriously. At the moment , there seems to be no
recourse against them and they can distort things to their hearts desire to impress others. Where does it stop being innaccuracy and start becoming
public deformation?
If this reporter, and most others took a stroll through my sweet old grand mother's house I'm sure he could make her look like a psycho terrorist if
he wanted to. I think that kinda sums it up for this article.
We salute the improvement of the human genome by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously. - www.darwinawards.com |
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Sauron
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Unfortunately the vast majority of the great unwashed public gets "informed" by hacks like this who are too lazy and too stupid to acquire even a
superficial understanding of their subject matter.
To make matters worse, since print is in its death throes, most people actually get their alleged information from television news, which is so shabby
and incompetent as to make even these newsies in the case at hand look like shining examples of Pulitzer quality journalism.
Most likely in this instance there is a cozy little axis of disinformation going between the selfimportant police sgt. who made the bust and the
reporter(s) who puffed it up into a newsworthy event. The sgt. wants a promotion, and the reporters want juicy news. The cop gets to look important,
the reporters get to fill up some white space without having to actually go and ferret out any real news.
This sort of non-event journalism goes on all the bloody time.
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woelen
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This reminds me of a really stupid thing, now one year ago.
Apparently, some transport agency lost a parcel from one of its vans. This was a parcel, filled with calcium nitrate, and it was labeled as such.
That morning, a big warning was in our local news paper, telling that a box, filled with very dangerous calcium nitrate was lost and could be
somewhere on/near the road. People were instructed not to touch the box, in the possible event of finding it. They should immediately call the local
police and tell them where the highly explosive chemical is. People were told that this is a friction sensitive very explosive chemical. This is total
bullshit. A bag of ordinary ammonium nitrate fertilizer is more dangerous than calcium nitrate, and nobody is scared of such fertilizers.
Sadly I did not find the box  .
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quicksilver
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Personally; the best lines there are:
"How much nitroglycerin does one need to commit an act of terrorism? Or does that depend on one's religion or the color of one's skin?"
"And why has this case attracted so little national attention? Or does that depend on religion and skin color, too?"
_____________________ YES IT DOES! ______________
If you happen to be Caucasian you need to possess 6.5 ounces of 2nd explosive and over 21 blasting caps.
If you happen to be Asian you need to possess 4.5 ounces of secondary but 33 blasting caps.
If you happen to be black you need to have 8 ounces but only 16 caps.
If your religion is Muslim than if you possess over 4.5 ounces of secondary, 16 caps and a partridge in a pear tree you may be arrested.
While if Methodist, you must have at least 16 ounces and over 30 caps.......this may seem odd, however. But if Jewish or Buddhist: the numbers are 12
ounces and 21 caps. Catholics need 8 ounces but over 33 caps and a whole lotta' love.
I am shocked that the writer did not know this material as it's common knowledge.....
What a stupid sensationalized piece of tripe. The guy had guns and chems, big deal. He was popping crap in a neighborhood: a major stupid thing to do.
Someone could have gotten hurt or he could have started a fire....OK big deal. Fine his ass and move on.
The sky is falling, the sky is falling. The writer could be defined as a seriously dumb cunt. Shit journalism like that is loathsome.
Victoria Camron can be reached at 303-684-5226, or by e-mail at vcamron@times-call.com....she requests that guys stop trying to look up her skirt.
[Edited on 22-6-2007 by quicksilver]
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The_Davster
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I am reminded of the quote, I find it helps explain sheeple mentality.
"The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers."
-- Thomas Jefferson
In all fairness, the reporter who wrote the wired article is special, I am not going to lump him in with the other parasites discussed here.
So the guy had guns and chems, and perhaps explosives. Does not sound like he was hurting anyone. Better hobbies than watching american idol.
[Edited on 22-6-2007 by The_Davster]
[Edited on 22-6-2007 by The_Davster]
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Eclectic
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The Davster: I can't find the exact phrase in the mass of sensational reporting again, but the essence of it was that the police were alerted by
neighbors who complained of the sound of explosions coming from the residence, and that the garage door had to be opened to air it out.
Can anyone with real experience tell what the real effect of 1/2 lb of nitroglycerin detonated in the driveway would be vs. the shock and awe effect
of detonating a bottle of glycerine with a blasting cap? I think just the cap going off would be "heard and felt throughout the area".
The MEKP in stabilizer sounds like polyester resin catalyst to me.
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franklyn
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selected quotations from cited article _
" police confiscated nitroglycerin, ammonium nitrate, PETN, thermite, and sodium azide, none of which are used as rocket fuels."
Oohh Yeah ? maybe not by the author.
" sodium azide produces a toxic gas when it comes into contact with metal;"
W T F huh ?
" Police detonated the nitroglycerin in Swerlein's driveway."
Heck there's a lot of people in this forum who have done that.
.
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bio2
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........Can anyone with real experience tell what the real effect of 1/2 lb of nitroglycerin detonated in the driveway would be .........
Seems like a half pound (227g) of nitroglycerin would make a crater in the driveway and freak out the neighbors even more than they already were.
But then I never tried any explosive bigger than the old M-80's.
[Edited on by bio2]
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Sauron
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Half a pound of NG would make a very respectable explosion and definitely would do some damage to the driveway, as the stuff is noted for its
brisance.
If this "controlled detonation" did not produce such effects then I would suspect that there never was anything like 227 g NG present. That the NG was
a fantasy of the police, and that destroying the nonexistant NG was a convenient way to perpetuate the fantasy, particularly in court.
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DeAdFX
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I am surprised these wankers weren't able to find this little gem. http://www.space-rockets.com/
Google search Ammonium Nitrate rockets...
First result brings up TOTSE which mentions that Ammonium Nitrate can be used as a rocket fuel(which seems to be a copy-paste of another site).
Space-rockets(JOHN wickam) is a few results down. How odd it seems that a bunch of incoherent dumbshits are a couple notches higher up on the IQ
scale compared to something as "respectable" as a news organization.
[Edited on 23-6-2007 by DeAdFX]
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Fleaker
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Half a pound of NG would guarantee broken windows throughout the neighborhood.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
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Winter
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Hi. Sorry I'm late.
Ralph left me a nice comment on my blog telling me about you and I came over as fast as I could. You can slap my wrists if necessary but I'm here to
learn.
I've read all your comments and plead guilty as charged, sort of... I've actually been trying to un-spin the original local news reports, and maybe I
haven't done the greatest job, but now that I know you're here maybe we can change that.
Even before I got here I was informed of what I think was my most glaring error, and I've done what I can to fix it. I updated my original post (the
one on my blog, not the piece re-published at prison planet) to reflect what I've learned, and there's nothing that says I can't update it again ...
I have also been in contact with a former military explosives expert who is now a rocketry and pyrotechnics enthusiast, and he's trying to help steer
me in the right direction.
At the moment I have two basic sorts of questions:
My ex-mil source has told me that ammonium nitrate, thermite and nitroglycerin are indeed used in rocket fuels but that PETN, MEKP and Soduim Azide
are not. Anyone care to comment on this one?
I've been asking him questions like whether there would be a plausible reason why somebody would want to experiment with PETN, MEKP and/or Sodium
Azide in a rocket fuel ... anybody care to answer that one?
~~~
Also, several sources have told me that sodium azide produces a toxic gas when it reacts with metal and that's why people get burns from air-bags. Are
they wrong about this? And if so can you fill me in?
~~~
On another front, here's a link to the items on my website that discuss this story.
http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/search/label/Ronald%20Swer...
If anyone can offer constructive criticism on any aspect of any post, I will be grateful.
You can leave a comment for me there, or here, or send me email: winterpatriot@gmail.com
Thank you very much.
WP
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Winter
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half a pound of NG in the driveway
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
Half a pound of NG would make a very respectable explosion and definitely would do some damage to the driveway, as the stuff is noted for its
brisance.
If this "controlled detonation" did not produce such effects then I would suspect that there never was anything like 227 g NG present. That the NG was
a fantasy of the police, and that destroying the nonexistant NG was a convenient way to perpetuate the fantasy, particularly in court.
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the police built a bunker of sandbags and detonated the NG inside it, according to news reports. there's even some video. they evacuated several homes
and nobody got hurt but it did do some damage to the garage door, according to one report. Does that sound reasonable to you?
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