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ngeneerguy
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i totally agree sauron! the only problem is that the epa has enacted so many laws about the disposal of basic chemicals used in labs that it is almost
impossible to "quietly destroy" chemicals that could be easily be formed into other things. during my research i did read an extenisve amount of data
about picric acid and know that it is easily used up in processes like metal etching and formation of other dipicric compounds as well as being able
to keep it wet by using constant survelence and keeping inspection records. while this is so, being funded by the state makes things more complicated
because we get the occasional inspection by people like the epa and other regulatory bodies that monitor college and university labs. if you have a
reciept for a chemical and no way to show what happened with it (i.e. recorded lab use or disposal records) these people start handing out fines and
reduce funding for science uses. in effect, these bodies can put a science department permanently out of bussiness.
the boom in the late 60s on until the late 80s concerining chemicals did address some much needed reforms in the disposal of large amounts of toxic
chemicals but it hit in places that noone would have suspected. the current college students and professors are probably hit harder than any industry
that is subject to these laws. an industry atleast profits from the use of chemicals. we, on the other hand, are subjected to larger department fees
and reduced budgets due to chemical disposal. this doesnt just affect the chem department either. all science departments are subjected to laws that
require the correct disposal of some things. our biology department, during an average year, spends between 5000 and 7500 for disposal of what is
considered to be "biological waste" when, infact, it is just a large collection of mostly latex gloves and easily incinerated bio matierials. to me,
this is rediculous but the state requires disposal records in the event of an inspection.
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Sauron
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As I said: the law is an ass.
There will come a time when the nation dismantles the EPA and the laws that mandate such stupidities.
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ngeneerguy
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by the way, is there anyone stopping through that has any experience with a continuous liquid-liquid extractor aparatus? have read up on it but would
like to talk with someone that has used the process just to clear up a couple of questions.
not sure if this is the direction im going but i figured i would atleast follow up on my prof's suggestion before i decided.
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Sauron
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I'd appreciate a list of those busybody organizations that go around to chemistry (and other) departments making sure EPA regs are adhered to. I can
see the EPA doing that because they have a legal mandate to do so. But the rest? I smell a cozy little deal with the environmental "industry" getting
very fat. I don't like priesthoods like this with a license to pick the pockets of the "laiety".
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joeflsts
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sauron
As I said: the law is an ass.
There will come a time when the nation dismantles the EPA and the laws that mandate such stupidities. |
Not as long as the likes of Al Gore are working feverishly to keep them WELL funded.
Sorry - this a sore spot with me.
We have grown men crying right now that we are all about to die over global warming and that hysteria is what gets funding in the US an other
countries. Common sense has been long lost.
Joe
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Ozone
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Continuous liquid-liquid extraction is performed routinely in the environmental sweat-shop circuit (and, almost everywhere else; I did *thousands*
while "sweatshopping" it as an undergrad). The design merely required knowledge of whether or not your solvent is more dense than the liquid you are
extracting (the slow, soft falling of fine solvent droplets usually avoids emulsion). What do you want to know about the apparatus, except that they
are quite expensive (or, do you have access and just want theory)?
Cheers,
O3
-Anyone who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
--Albert Einstein
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Sauron
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Is it any wonder in the face of all this absurd burden for no good reason, that academia shifts to the path of least resistance: instrumental
analysis, instrumented microsynthesis without isolation, and computational chemistry without any wet lab at all?
All these things have their place to be sure but as adjuncts to CHEMISTRY not as replacements for actually DOING chemistry.
If academia abandons wet lab, who will do basic, pure research?
Industry wants bottom line results, sounds like applied research to me. Government same.
Looks like chemistry will become a sunset profession in the western world. How depressing.
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ngeneerguy
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at the moment ozone, i do have an apparatus. the theory ive researched. im more interested in what can actually be extracted besides caffine and other
menial products. im more interested in what might be truly worth extracting and what solvent would be used for the extraction. ive been looking at a
few that are common like acetic acid but im looking for something a litte more high end and truly worth messin with. i dont really see a use for a
process if all a person can do is extract a little caffine because i can do that with a few tea leaves or extract some crap from some dirty water
because that is what i pay a sewage bill for. im looking for the one chemical that might turn out to be the one that might get me rich from just
knowing how to get it out.
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Magpie
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| Quote: |
Looks like chemistry will become a sunset profession in the western world. How depressing.
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This was beginning when I received my university education in the 60's. My calculus teacher was from Pakistan. My organic lab instructor was a PhD
grad student from India. His brother (a PhD grad student in ChE) taught the 1 credit course I took in nuclear engineering. Now it seems like the
grad students in chemistry are almost entirely Chinese. So they have been picking our brains for decades. Now that their political systems are
maturing it seems that they are dominating the chemical commodities markets. It just a matter of time before the Eastern countries will be the world
experts in chemistry. Then they will be in control of the research and patents. Then it is the Western countries that will be saying "Yes, Master."
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Sauron
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Is that more of a Renfield, "Dracula, Dead and Loving it" Yes Master?
Or more of a Barbara Eden, "I Dream of Jeanie" Yes, Master?
Personally I'd rather eat flies than be a harem girl, but that's just me.
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Magpie
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Actually, what I had in mind was more like Dr Frankenstein's hunchback lab assistant, Igor. But they all apply, I suppose.
The single most important condition for a successful synthesis is good mixing - Nicodem
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Sauron
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Or Marty Feldman as Eyegor in Young Frankenstein, the Mel Brooks classic.
"Damn your eyes!"
"Too late!"
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Pyridinium
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I was going to say maybe one of the Dess-Martin periodinanes for your project, but if quadricyclanes are out and the universities have become so
hobbled by regs and enviro-nuts that picric acid is even a no-no, then forget it.
Too bad, because the synth isn't that involved. Nowadays you can even get the full article online. It recommends a blast shield, definitely good
while the material is in glass. (I am not into energetic materials, but even I would be too intrigued by this compound to shy away from a lil' ol'
milligram-sized heap of it).
Wasn't that long ago you could perform small synths and do a little steel-on-anvil action as a demonstration, but that has probably changed. (Today,
hubris even to suggest it? Hey, they've done it on Mythbusters.)
I agree with the others, the enviro-priesthood is ruinous.
India, China, etc are now where the action is.
[Edited on 20-3-2007 by Pyridinium]
[Edited on 20-3-2007 by Pyridinium]
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