Yorty2040
Harmless
Posts: 41
Registered: 1-2-2024
Member Is Offline
|
|
Liquid primaries
The only liquid primary I'm aware of for sure is dimeric MEKP. Dugan mentioned a liquid version of NAP resulting from performing the synthesis in
ethylene glycol as a solvent, but I haven't seen any images or tests, let alone data on it.
I'm curious if there are any others, especially ones that detonate unconfined. Perhaps ionic liquids with a chlorate or perchlorate counterion?
[Edited on 25-6-2024 by Yorty2040]
|
|
|
dettoo456
Hazard to Others
Posts: 243
Registered: 12-9-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
The organic perchlorates are primaries, though extremely sensitive and unstable at STP. Longer chain and branched paraffins or olefins like isobutyl
or allyl perchlorate may be liquid primaries that are more stable.
NG is also practically a primary, though cannot DDT from flame contact alone AFAIK. Sensitized NG (not a great idea to do) with N2O4, MeONO2, HClO4,
etc might be able to DDT in direct flame contact.
Ionic liquids are usually far too bulky and insensitive, and even something like ClO4- or ClO3- wouldn’t likely be enough to sensitize them.
Part of the problem with liquid primaries, or the lack thereof, and liquid fuels in general as EMs, is the barrier to initiate phase change to a gas
to promote combustion and the low densities they exhibit (which raises their heat capacity/insulating properties to heat). They really need a
‘shock’ to begin decomposition, or a solid or gas somewhere in their physical matrix to raise densities (of the liquid as a whole) and create
“hot-zones” that can promote decomposition reactions to take place.
[Edited on 25-6-2024 by dettoo456]
|
|
|
Yorty2040
Harmless
Posts: 41
Registered: 1-2-2024
Member Is Offline
|
|
Oh right, I forgot about the perchlorate esters. I guess since they're almost impossible to use they slipped my mind.
|
|
|
Microtek
National Hazard
Posts: 869
Registered: 23-9-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
As dettoo says, the lack of voids in a liquid energetic, makes ddt very inefficient. That means that it must be compensated with higher sensitivity to
be used as a primary.
Of course, a liquid primary wouldn't be very practical IMO, and that may explain why very little research has been done on the topic.
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1716
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
There are ways of introducing voids in liquids. But I agree, this sounds like a solution looking for a hand to blow off.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
|
|
|
UndermineBriarEverglade
Hazard to Self
Posts: 55
Registered: 13-6-2024
Member Is Offline
|
|
You're looking for a room-temperature liquid right? ETN is effectively a primary once melted and appears to detonate unconfined in Dugan's videos. I
thought about putting some in a capsule and then melting with a nichrome coil or flame to detonate.
|
|
|
OneEyedPyro
Hazard to Others
Posts: 280
Registered: 7-10-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I recall seeing an old YouTube video where the guy added MEKP to nitroglycerin before being mixed with nitrocellulose to make gelignite, I'm not sure
if MEKP and NG will even go into solution with each other to be honest. Apparently, this dramatically increases VoD since NG/NC has a
counter-intuitively low VoD.
Assuming they are miscible, I'd guess adding some amount of NG to MEKP could add power and some stability while still undergoing DDT at small
diameters. This is entirely conjecture though.
With that said. Liquid EMs have always been a nightmare to work with for me, I can't think of a reason to use a liquid primary (let alone MEKP) for
anything practically speaking.
|
|
|
chornedsnorkack
National Hazard
Posts: 563
Registered: 16-2-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456  | The organic perchlorates are primaries, though extremely sensitive and unstable at STP. Longer chain and branched paraffins or olefins like isobutyl
or allyl perchlorate may be liquid primaries that are more stable.
NG is also practically a primary, though cannot DDT from flame contact alone AFAIK. |
Of well known classics that are easily (and often unintentionally) produced, how about NCl3? How does the detonation sensitivity of NCl3 as primary
compare to NG?
[Edited on 2-7-2024 by chornedsnorkack]
|
|
|
dettoo456
Hazard to Others
Posts: 243
Registered: 12-9-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by chornedsnorkack | | Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456 | The organic perchlorates are primaries, though extremely sensitive and unstable at STP. Longer chain and branched paraffins or olefins like isobutyl
or allyl perchlorate may be liquid primaries that are more stable.
NG is also practically a primary, though cannot DDT from flame contact alone AFAIK. |
Of well known classics that are easily (and often unintentionally) produced, how about NCl3? How does the detonation sensitivity of NCl3 as primary
compare to NG?
[Edited on 2-7-2024 by chornedsnorkack] |
NCl3 is hilariously sensitive (at least in large amounts) and easily achieves fast DDT through mild heat, flame contact, friction, impact, and even
free-radicals/high energy photons in UV light (sunlight). In small quantities though, I cannot vouch for its DDT characteristics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6I6zbiHyf-A
|
|
|
dettoo456
Hazard to Others
Posts: 243
Registered: 12-9-2021
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by chornedsnorkack | | Quote: Originally posted by dettoo456 | The organic perchlorates are primaries, though extremely sensitive and unstable at STP. Longer chain and branched paraffins or olefins like isobutyl
or allyl perchlorate may be liquid primaries that are more stable.
NG is also practically a primary, though cannot DDT from flame contact alone AFAIK. |
Of well known classics that are easily (and often unintentionally) produced, how about NCl3? How does the detonation sensitivity of NCl3 as primary
compare to NG?
[Edited on 2-7-2024 by chornedsnorkack] |
NCl3 is hilariously sensitive (at least in large amounts) and easily achieves fast DDT through mild heat, flame contact, friction, impact, and even
free-radicals/high energy photons in UV light (sunlight). In small quantities though, I cannot vouch for its DDT characteristics.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6I6zbiHyf-A
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
