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Pok
potassium Prometheus
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As a German I have to say that it's absolutely true that Germans murdered millions of people, mostly Jews, with HCN. Sure, only a few murered with
HCN, but practically all the others murdered by guns or making weapons, propaganda, etc. If we talk about history and politics, this must of course be
said and not hidden. In the concentration camps they murdered in an "industrial" or "professional" way so that the murders didn't even had to fear
poisoning themselves. As far as I know, they didn't use antidotes and not a single murderer was poisoned. I took the case of Bandera, because it's the
only documentad case I know of in which antidotes have been used.
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Admagistr
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Yeah, a lot of Ukrainians considered the Nazis to be the lesser of two evils- the Nazis talked about killing millions of Jews, but the Stalinists had
already killed ten million Ukrainians. Tough to blame them.[/rquote]
Yes, Stalin was probably a bit worse than Hitler, he also had concentration camps in Siberia, he killed a lot more people, also because he ruled
longer. He was even a secret anti-semite and killed Jews too. Also, Stalin had a secret agreement with Hitler and they divided Poland and he even
celebrated Hitler's birthday and admired Hitler before Hitler invaded Russia. Stalin didn't believe he would do it, he had him as a friend whom he
respected.
[Edited on 28-1-2024 by Admagistr]
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Admagistr
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Quote: Originally posted by Pok  | | As a German I have to say that it's absolutely true that Germans murdered millions of people, mostly Jews, with HCN. Sure, only a few murered with
HCN, but practically all the others murdered by guns or making weapons, propaganda, etc. If we talk about history and politics, this must of course be
said and not hidden. In the concentration camps they murdered in an "industrial" or "professional" way so that the murders didn't even had to fear
poisoning themselves. As far as I know, they didn't use antidotes and not a single murderer was poisoned. I took the case of Bandera, because it's the
only documentad case I know of in which antidotes have been used. |
Yes I appreciate your answer very much and very bad things need to be spoken truthfully, admitted so they can be forgiven and healed!
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kmno4
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Sorry, it has nothing to do with very interesting posts by Pok, but I have to write some additional "historical" comments.
| Quote: | I read that during WWII the Ukrainians initially welcomed the Germans with the hope that they would
liberate them from the Russians.Maybe the Bandera felt the same way, that the Germans would liberate them
from the Russians? |
No, no, it is not so simple like this. It is highly complex issue.
Have you heard about "Volhynian slaughter" ? If no - visit wikipedia, for example. You do not have to belive me, but you should
belive the facts.
| Quote: | | .... and very bad things need to be spoken truthfully, admitted so they can be forgiven and healed! |
I agree with it, but only partly.
During IIWW, Germans killed more than 6000000 Polish citizens.The city Warsaw (capital) was completely
ruined and distroyed - at Hitler's behest, in revange for Warsaw Uprising. Germans looted coutless amount of works of art from Poland. For helping
Jews (food, hiding... anything), the only punishment was death - occupied Poland was the only country, where German invedrs introduced such "law".
Read (if you wish) about the Ulma family or Zegota (Żegota). Another thing - forced, slave labour in Germany on very large scale...
All these bad things can be (and should be) forgiven. However, there is one big "but". Up to now, Germany did not make any finantial compensation for
all these damages to Poland (but few cases). They say that "everything is already set, fixed and done - we have nothing to talk about".
Nowdays, when I hear about legality, the rule of law,forgivness, guilt etc... from German politicians, I hear empty words and historical irony.
I know from persons working in Germany few years ago, that some (but large) part of German people still
treat the Slavic Nations as Untermenschen, whatever the Germans officially say.
Concluding remark: some things should be forgiven, but not forgotten and if you made some damage, you should
pay for it. Saying "We are guilty" is not enough.
BTW.
Do you know, that Germnay in 2010 payed the last part of contribution for IWW (yes, firts) to France and Great Britan ? They will also pay to Namibia
(Africa), for genocide from early XX century.... and most possibly, it is not over.
Слава Україні !
Героям слава !
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6dthjd1
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I remember reading an online book from the 19th century that said that preparation of up to 1.5 L of hydrogen cyanide compounds could be safely done!
They had no fume hood. I'll take outdoors for me if doing that prep for any amount
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Bedlasky
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Interesting history debate. There are still lots of grievences around WW2. I could throw up few opinions, but I don't want to start political debate
in chemistry thread. However, there are two interesting notes I would like to address.
Firstly, Zyklon B was originally used as pesticide. Nazis misused it much later. It was hydrogen cyanide adsorbed on diatomaceous earth. There was
also addition of eye irritant for safety (nitrochloroform or cyanogen chloride).
And secondly about masakre at Volhynia. There was Czech minority there, mainly in village Malín. Those who survived emigrated to Czechoslovakia and
found village Český Malín near Sudet mountains. There is hill above village called Volyňské skály.
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mr_bovinejony
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I have prepared hcn the same way but have not managed to find a solution to the gel is forms when distilled into methanolic koh. I was under the
impression that only water causes this problem and koh or naoh dissolved in an anhydrous alcohol will give a nice powder, have you run into this
problem or have a solution?
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6dthjd1
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| Quote: Originally posted by Fery | Great! Keep up good work. Also perfect experiment with the mosquito, so everyone could imagine how quickly the HCN causes its lethal effect. There was
a forum in my country, but is already dead. 20 y ago a member with nick Cyano posted there his experiments with HCN distillation in his cellar and
that all the rats there died (luckily he survived). Antidotes are inhaling amyl nitrite + O2, intravenous infusion of NaNO2 and Na2S2O3, vitamin B12
and many more.
edit: I found his post in an archive in my harddisk, I like to save interesting things as they can disappear in the future, the forum had a name PXD:
| Quote: | od: cyano 01.07.2003, 02:44:32
Též jsem dělal kapalný kyanovodík-- ale podcenil jsem délku chladiče a teplotu chladicí kapaliny-- byla 17 st, je zde nutná teplota kolem
nuly. Došlo k explozi aparatury--nic se nestalo, pokus jsem dělěl ve sklepě rod. domku-- ale vše je k něčemu dobré-- pochcípali
potkani--našl jsem jich další den asi 5-7 , nevím , bylo to před lety, když jsem chodil na gympl.
here the translation into eng:
I also did liquid hydrogen cyanide - but I underestimated the length of the condenser and the temperature of the cooling liquid - it was 17 C, the
required temperature is around zero. There was an explosion of the apparatus - nothing happened, I was doing the experiment in the basement of the
family house - but everything is good for something - the rats perished - I found about 5-7 of them the next day, I don't know, it was years ago when
I studied Gymnasium (Gymnazium in my country is analogy of high school or grammar school). |
[Edited on 25-1-2024 by Fery] |
Basement? without fume hood
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