| Pages:
1
2 |
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Cutting with primary
Cutting test of bristol board with a primary explosive.The primer is nitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate, with a linear density of 4.5 mg per cm.
Unfortunately, other than Edmund Herz's 1911 patent and its mention in COPAE, there are no studies of this primer that I know of. It has not found
use because diazonium salts have a bad reputation for instability, and also because it is said to be hygrometric. I dispute this last point: I have
kept samples of it for more than twenty years without noticing any hygrometry, nor any degradation except a darkening of its color.
It was used routinely in the laboratory by Henri Muraour (a French explosives researcher in the 1930s and 1940s) when he needed a particularly
powerful primer. In my own tests, I estimate its priming power against PETN and RDX to be about twice that of AgN3 of equal weight.
I do not know its VOD.As for its sensitivity to mechanical actions, I tend to subjectively equate it to that of Hg(CNO)2. DDT is immediate, with no
perceivable induction time.
  
Edit(woelen): Fixed issue with one of the pictures on request of user pdb.
[Edited on 2-12-21 by woelen]
|
|
|
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Next try with a 41 cm path. Photo quality is poor due to lack of light.
 
Edit(woelen): Fixed issue with one of the pictures on request of user pdb.
[Edited on 2-12-21 by woelen]
|
|
|
Brightthermite
Hazard to Others
Posts: 133
Registered: 26-6-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
These are so cool
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1725
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
Bravo!
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1407
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
Finally someone with Art of primary compounds. Sometimes the VoD is not so important a like results. And this is the case.
Great work...
Maybe try use thin Copper plate. 0,1 mm I estimate. Detonography
is very interest art.
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
|
|
|
Brightthermite
Hazard to Others
Posts: 133
Registered: 26-6-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  | Finally someone with Art of primary compounds. Sometimes the VoD is not so important a like results. And this is the case.
Great work...
Maybe try use thin Copper plate. 0,1 mm I estimate. Detonography
is very interest art.
|
Beautiful!! Once I find something to act as a backing that is my next project!
|
|
|
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov | Finally someone with Art of primary compounds. Sometimes the VoD is not so important a like results. And this is the case.
Great work...
Maybe try use thin Copper plate. 0,1 mm I estimate. Detonography
is very interest art.
|
Yes, I have done detonography with a sheet of plexiglass to transmit the detonation wave. But your method with a water balloon is much easier and
effective!
By the way, could you please check in the Russian literature if there is a study on nitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate? Some years ago someone found a
paper in Russian about dinitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate, but this compound is of no interest because it only deflagrates: even priming it with
another primer, I couldn't get it to detonate.
Speaking of art, I have a "work" that I could call "entanglement". Look at the pictures
  
|
|
|
katyushaslab
Hazard to Self
Posts: 81
Registered: 19-1-2021
Member Is Offline
Mood: precipitating
|
|
nitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate? Is that the one where you start with 3-nitroaniline, dissolve it in HClO4/HCl mixture and add NaNO2 to perform
diazonation? I vaguely recall reading yourself and Microtek posts about it many years ago.
I also cannot for the life of me remember if HClO4 was strictly needed, or if a perchlorate salt worked fine.
Edit: Also, what are you using to "bind" your material here? Painting it on while wet and allowing to dry, or nitrocellulose/similar as a binder? I
wonder if a thin layer of this material, bound with NC or similar painted onto an object such as a leaf, affixed to a metal plate could work for
making artwork?
[Edited on 22-10-2021 by katyushaslab]
[Edited on 22-10-2021 by katyushaslab]
|
|
|
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by katyushaslab | nitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate? Is that the one where you start with 3-nitroaniline, dissolve it in HClO4/HCl mixture and add NaNO2 to perform
diazonation? I vaguely recall reading yourself and Microtek posts about it many years ago.
|
Yes !
Never tried. It should work with an excess HCl.
I didn't bother, I just added about 10% flour.
| Quote: Originally posted by katyushaslab | | I wonder if a thin layer of this material, bound with NC or similar painted onto an object such as a leaf, affixed to a metal plate could work for
making artwork? |
You must first find a material that can produce "art" after being subjected to a shock wave. Ideas welcome !
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Could you guys elaborate on the water balloon, the plexiglass or point me to other topics that I might have missed where you talk about that ?
You made me curious 
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1407
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
detonography
Yes, ballon water works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeAEwi04PoI
[Edited on 22-10-2021 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
|
|
|
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The plexiglass assembly consists, from top to bottom, of a sheet of explosive (PETN preferable because the critical thickness is very low) with a
centered detonator, then a plexiglass disk of about 1cm thickness to homogenize the shock wave, then the object to be engraved (a vegetable leaf), and
finally a polished copper or brass plate.
It works, but it is more complicated than the water balloon method.
|
|
|
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Cutting with AgN3
The same cutting experiment with AgN3 does not work well: the size of the crystals (much larger than the nitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate crystals)
and especially their high density prevent them from remaining suspended in the water + flour mixture. So it is difficult to spread the mixture on the
cardboard.
Another detail: I never managed to capture a nice flame from an AgN3 explosion, whereas nitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate always gives great pictures
with sparks all over the path.
edit(woelen): Removed erroneous download file on request of pdb
[Edited on 13-3-23 by woelen]
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thank you both.
Your solutions are way better than anything I have thought of so far.
The water balloon contraption is art in itselft.
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Trial with (NCN3)3
This time I tried to form a trail of CTA (cyanuric triazide) by melting (m.p. 94°).But once liquid, the CTA soaked the cardboard, in which it
diffused giving it a certain translucence, like an oil stain.
As a result, the behavior in the flame is quite strange: I put two extracts in the video. You can see that the CTA crackles, without continuity in the
detonation, but with continuity in the crackling.
It is in a way halfway between nitrobenzene diazonium perchlorate which detonates in one go, and AgN3 which detonates in segments, without continuity
between the successive detonations
edit(woelen): Removed erroneous download file on request of pdb
[Edited on 13-3-23 by woelen]
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by pdb | The same cutting experiment with AgN3 does not work well: the size of the crystals (much larger than the nitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate crystals)
and especially their high density prevent them from remaining suspended in the water + flour mixture. So it is difficult to spread the mixture on the
cardboard
|
I theorize a small additional % guar gum or xanthan gum would provide a stiffer gel capable of keeping your larger/denser crystals suspended.
Prepared wallpaper paste might be better with heavy crystals than plain than flour/water
Or maybe COOK the flour/water mixture? Brinnng it to a simmer while stirring and allow to cool before adding primary? Explosive gravy...
I keep food grade xanthan and guar gums on hand. Useful for everything from making hot sauce that doesn't run off your ribs & wings to making cut
stars.
[Edited on 11-4-2021 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1407
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
pdb:
Spectacular video with paper. Great work. Magic paper. A like shooting into paper from invisible laser 1000W. Or beams of death. All others important
for better results said Bert...
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
|
|
|
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Again, the nitrobenzenediazonium perchlorate provides a beautiful image, captured at 240 fps. I think this is due to the recombination of the
detonation products, from the raw formula C6H4ClN3O6, which lasts longer than the detonation itself (which, as a thin trail, must be quite low, maybe
2000 to 3000 m/s... however enough to travel about a meter per image). By the way, the smell of the explosion is very pleasant... well, I think so.
With inorganic azides, or fulminates, the detonation products are too simple to cause a recombination. So it is rare to capture the detonation at 240
fps, and at best you just see a white flash.
  
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1407
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
Mad perchlorate. Exotic formula. Spectacular photos...
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
|
|
|
MineMan
International Hazard
Posts: 1012
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That paper video was so so cool. Please do more experiments for that. It’s like a detonating fuse. There has to be a use for it.
|
|
|
pdb
Hazard to Self
Posts: 90
Registered: 8-4-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This time I shot the back of the Bristol to avoid the camera being blinded by the flash of the detonation. I also put a black background screen to
avoid any reflection of the light.
Too bad, the detonation was captured on 2 frames. On the first one, the detonation occurred at the half of the sensor scan. And the second one is
particularly nice. However, I hope next time to capture the entire detonation on a single frame.
     
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1407
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
Incredible art work...Hat off....
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
|
|
|
Mateo_swe
National Hazard
Posts: 548
Registered: 24-8-2019
Location: Within EU
Member Is Offline
|
|
Wow, really cool.
I liked the different types of leaf on the metal plates, looks like the ancient fossils they find enbedded in stone.
I really have to try this some time.
Does other explosives work too if one work out how big charge to use by some trials?
The waterballon method seem very good.
|
|
|
simply RED
Hazard to Others
Posts: 209
Registered: 18-8-2005
Location: noitacoL
Member Is Offline
Mood: booM
|
|
Really beautiful, should be published in some scientific-popular journal.
When logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead...
|
|
|
B(a)P
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 29-9-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Festive
|
|
What is the composition that you have used here? It certainly doesn't look like much to do that, what mass of material did you use?
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
