| Pages:
1
2 |
Xanax
Hazard to Self
Posts: 54
Registered: 28-8-2003
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline
Mood: Curious
|
|
Swede blow out his apartment with TATP
On January 27th earlier this year, an apartment exploded in Västerås, Sweden.
The man suffered severe injuries and it turned out that he had over 3 kg of TATP at home.
I don't think everything exploded, but it was enough to blow out windows and doors.
In Sweden, the investigation becomes public when it is time for prosecution, and it is available here (only in Swedish):
https://anonfiles.com/N041j3B3y8/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/H4zf0cBcyd/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/38we0eBay7/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/V4vf0eB2y0/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/jcx702Beyd/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/yaxf0eBay5/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/B9x600B6y1/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/lcyc0cB1yb/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/w6y105B4y1/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/93yc00Bbya/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/37ya01Bcy2/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/N9ye0eB7yc/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/h6z208B2y2/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/p4z409Bcy3/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
https://anonfiles.com/W5x600B8y7/V_stmanlands_TR_B_621-22_Ak...
Here are newspaper articles (in Swedish) about the event:
https://www.vlt.se/story/2d1d200f-a1f6-41c9-9535-3f4f9eecb8f...
|
|
|
MadHatter
International Hazard
Posts: 1346
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying retirement
|
|
Swede
There was a Swede named "phone" on E & W some years ago. He found out the
hard way not to try to reignite a fuse that went out. When the authorities went
into his place they found piles of AP all over the place. Not a good idea to work
with sensitive primaries. Far too unstable IMHO.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
|
|
|
jerry0nim0
Harmless
Posts: 2
Registered: 7-9-2022
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter  | There was a Swede named "phone" on E & W some years ago. He found out the
hard way not to try to reignite a fuse that went out. When the authorities went
into his place they found piles of AP all over the place. Not a good idea to work
with sensitive primaries. Far too unstable IMHO. |
You sure that's the story?
I believe that he had an accident in his grandparents attic.
I'm sure the charge went off when handling, not sure why he would light the fuse while inside of the building.
(and it was AP/AN IIRC)
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
I recall many kilos of AP/AN and preliminary detonation as well. The proof for the amounts and the composition were the photos he was proudly throwing
around. The warnings everyone was giving were obviously ignored.
[Edited on 10-10-2022 by Tsjerk]
|
|
|
Mateo_swe
National Hazard
Posts: 548
Registered: 24-8-2019
Location: Within EU
Member Is Offline
|
|
3kg of TATP isnt a typical hobby chemist playing around with making some explosives for fun.
I wonder why he made so much of it.
|
|
|
B(a)P
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 29-9-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Festive
|
|
There was a guy arrested in Australia for having a similar amount. I remember thinking the same thing when I read that article. 3 kg of TATP is a
serious amount. Even worse, this guy had it stashed in public places and a member of the public ultimately found it. The police were called and they
assumed it was some type of drug and took it off for testing. When they worked out what it was the entire police station had to be evacuated. Probably
not the best procedural approach to dealing with unknown white powders. Also incredibly lucky it wasn't found by kids.
The guy ended up getting about a year of gaol time from memory. In his defence he pleaded that he was just making it for fun and for the entertainment
of setting it off and never intended to hurt anyone.
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe | 3kg of TATP isnt a typical hobby chemist playing around with making some explosives for fun.
I wonder why he made so much of it. |
The reason people make it in these amounts, at least in the Netherlands, is to blow up ATMs and hopefully take the money inside.
|
|
|
Vomaturge
Hazard to Others
Posts: 286
Registered: 21-1-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: thermodynamic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by jerry0nim0 | | Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter | There was a Swede named "phone" on E & W some years ago. He found out the
hard way not to try to reignite a fuse that went out. When the authorities went
into his place they found piles of AP all over the place. Not a good idea to work
with sensitive primaries. Far too unstable IMHO. |
You sure that's the story?
I believe that he had an accident in his grandparents attic.
I'm sure the charge went off when handling, not sure why he would light the fuse while inside of the building.
(and it was AP/AN IIRC) |
These are two different incidents. The first one happened many years ago and he went to examine the fuse that had “went out.” It had actually
slowed its burning to a smolder, maybe because of moisture or being frayed so that it had an uneven burn rate. It of course got going again just in
time to kill him.
That’s a case of of of bad equipment, bad safety procedures/no safety procedures, and bad luck, that would have happened regardless of what the
charge was made of.
That said, he was doing a number of really sketchy things (including using peroxides) and it’s basically just chance that that mishandling the fuse
situation was the first one to catch up to him.
I now have a YouTube channel. So far just electronics and basic High Voltage experimentation, but I'll hopefully have some chemistry videos soon. |
|
|
Mateo_swe
National Hazard
Posts: 548
Registered: 24-8-2019
Location: Within EU
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk | | Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe | 3kg of TATP isnt a typical hobby chemist playing around with making some explosives for fun.
I wonder why he made so much of it. |
The reason people make it in these amounts, at least in the Netherlands, is to blow up ATMs and hopefully take the money inside.
|
I think at least nowadays the ATMs are constructed with this in mind and the chances to get usable money from blowing a big charge in a ATM is very
slim.
But maybe someone think its worth a try.
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
ATM's have been blowing up on a regular basis since the war in former Yougoslavia.
I dont know what you're supposed to do with 3kg of TATP when apparently 100-150 grams of plastic explosive (Semtex I assume) are enough.
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
paulll
Hazard to Others
Posts: 112
Registered: 1-5-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's fine. Really.
|
|
Blow yourself up and posthumously trigger knee-jerk legal measures that will inconvenience and annoy as many people as possible?
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
Blow up 10 ATMs?
[Edited on 15-10-2022 by Tsjerk]
|
|
|
ManyInterests
National Hazard
Posts: 938
Registered: 19-5-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk | | Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe | 3kg of TATP isnt a typical hobby chemist playing around with making some explosives for fun.
I wonder why he made so much of it. |
The reason people make it in these amounts, at least in the Netherlands, is to blow up ATMs and hopefully take the money inside.
|
Wouldn't that also blow up the money? It reminds me of the scene from Robocop where the villain gets pissed at a gang member for blowing up the safe
and burning the cash.
and 3KG of TATP is heart attack inducing levels of terror! How did that stuff not explode under its own weight? I am amazed that the police who took
that amount thinking it was drugs to their station and not have it blown up. I mean cocaine and heroin are dangerous drugs, but they won't explode if
you drop a bag on the floor or smack them with a hammer.
|
|
|
ManyInterests
National Hazard
Posts: 938
Registered: 19-5-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber | ATM's have been blowing up on a regular basis since the war in former Yougoslavia.
I dont know what you're supposed to do with 3kg of TATP when apparently 100-150 grams of plastic explosive (Semtex I assume) are enough.
|
Some reasons. Firstly they probably don't have access to semtex (or the reagents required to make the RDX and PETN to form its base) or the
appropriate detonators. Secondly they are unlikely to use all 3kg at once, since that is clearly overkill.
Still I marvel at how he managed to have 3kg of TATP in one place without it exploding under its own weight. Was it wet TATP or dry?
|
|
|
B(a)P
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 29-9-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Festive
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by ManyInterests |
Still I marvel at how he managed to have 3kg of TATP in one place without it exploding under its own weight. Was it wet TATP or dry?
|
If it were carefully made it would be unlikely to explode under its own weight. However, the high volatility and flammability of the compound would
have meant there was an extreme risk of unintended initiation. I would guess this is what likely occurred.
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
When I first heard of Hezbollah using 40+ Kg of the stuff in the 80's I couldnt believe it but it was not completely impossible.
When I read in the news that soldiers on patrol found 600 Kg in a 55 gallons drum under a bridge, *that* I couldnt believe at all.
Volume, density... nah...
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
B(a)P
International Hazard
Posts: 1139
Registered: 29-9-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Festive
|
|
I don't think you would even get 600 kg into two 55 gallon drums. I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy trying to squeeze that last kg in. Though
once the first kg is in the drum it doesn't really matter from then on - same outcome if it inadvertently goes off while you are standing next to it
if it is 600 g or 600 kg.
|
|
|
pantone159
National Hazard
Posts: 590
Registered: 27-6-2006
Location: Austin, TX, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: desperate for shade
|
|
I seem to recall some paper posted here where some Israeli researchers characterized a multi-kg crystal of TATP that they made.
|
|
|
ManyInterests
National Hazard
Posts: 938
Registered: 19-5-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by B(a)P | | I don't think you would even get 600 kg into two 55 gallon drums. I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy trying to squeeze that last kg in. Though
once the first kg is in the drum it doesn't really matter from then on - same outcome if it inadvertently goes off while you are standing next to it
if it is 600 g or 600 kg. |
| Quote: | When I first heard of Hezbollah using 40+ Kg of the stuff in the 80's I couldnt believe it but it was not completely impossible.
When I read in the news that soldiers on patrol found 600 Kg in a 55 gallons drum under a bridge, *that* I couldnt believe at all.
Volume, density... nah... |
Hezbollah using TATP really doesn't seem likely. They have the governmental backing of Iran and most of their weapons come from them. They have access
to military grade HE and munitions. No need to use something as iffy as TATP when you can easily get semtex and C4.
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: | When I first heard of Hezbollah using 40+ Kg of the stuff in the 80'sText I couldnt believe it
but it was not completely impossible.
|
I dont think you were born.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War
Iranian backed terrorists still use TATP nowadays.
Research who are Amir Saadouni Naslameh Naami and specially Assadollah Assadi.
According to Hamas, the price of a TATP explosive belt is around 1500-4300$
Those kind of belts were worn by the terrorists in the 2015 attacks in Paris.
Imagine that, these people could get their hands on AK-12 (in 2015!!!) but not on high explosives.
Furthermore, Hezbollah is trying to distance itself from Iran but what do I know ? I'm certainly talking out of my ass.
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
Herr Haber
International Hazard
Posts: 1236
Registered: 29-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by pantone159 | | I seem to recall some paper posted here where some Israeli researchers characterized a multi-kg crystal of TATP that they made.
|
Good lord... Ok, now that you have your crystal what do you do with it ? 
Any idea what was the purpose of such err... endeavour ?
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by jerry0nim0 | | Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter | There was a Swede named "phone" on E & W some years ago. He found out the
hard way not to try to reignite a fuse that went out. When the authorities went
into his place they found piles of AP all over the place. Not a good idea to work
with sensitive primaries. Far too unstable IMHO. |
You sure that's the story?
I believe that he had an accident in his grandparents attic.
I'm sure the charge went off when handling, not sure why he would light the fuse while inside of the building.
(and it was AP/AN IIRC) |
Fone died in a hole for installing new lighting at a construction area in a park near his mothers apartment. It was several pounds of ammonium nitrate
sensitized with acetone peroxide. He used a wire sparkler for a fuse. He went back when he thought it had failed.
He did it just about the time I hit enter on a message at the old E&W forum telling him what he was doing was insane and he was probably going to
die. I still wonder if I could have done something more effective.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
BlackPowderBoy
Harmless
Posts: 17
Registered: 26-10-2022
Member Is Offline
Mood: The Arts
|
|
Wow...
|
|
|
Laboratory of Liptakov
International Hazard
Posts: 1409
Registered: 2-9-2014
Location: Technion Haifa
Member Is Offline
Mood: old jew
|
|
Last sentence from Bert sounds a like some screenplay at ending of Hollywood movie. Horrible story.
Development of primarily - secondary substances CHP (2015) Lithex (2022) Brightelite (2023) Nitrocelite and KC primer (2024)
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1725
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
@Bert: Don't beat yourself up, you really can't fix stupid.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
