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stoichiometric_steve
National Hazard
Posts: 827
Registered: 14-12-2005
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Mood: satyric
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HELP! EU/DE/FR: Impending infrastructural apocalypse and possibility of civil war
Dear friends, our incompetent German government, along with their French counterparts, have willingly pushed us very close already to a climactic
situation with their idiotic energy policies.
Our gas reserves are running out quickly, while nuclear power plants in France face historically high numbers of shut down reactors due to urgent
maintenance.
This poses an imminent threat to the stability of the entire european power grid, which has had alarmingly high counts of stability issues in the past
years and months.
With home heating in France depending largely on electricity, decoupling from the paneuropean grid to avoid the spreading of inevitable local or even
nationwide blackouts has become basically unavoidable, unless hardly enforceable, drastic measures of energy rationing are implemented.
In winter, we will come very close to or actually have to face cataclysmic infrastructural meltdown and subsequent civil unrest with enormous risk of
looting and war due to an energy and food crisis, being facilitated and dramatically accelerated by continued inadequate Covid infection control,
which in turn allowed numerous viral immune escape variants of skyrocketing infectiousness to emerge.
In light of this situation — which i hope we can still work to avoid — i would like to call upon every member in the general area to help form
alliances and instate a network of mutual assistance.
I am not exactly sure how to organize, since we as a society are now fatally dependent on uninterrupted energy and telecommunications infrastructure.
Let us come together, at least in spirit, and put our minds to work to save the day.
It is imperative we act as one, and do so immediately.
[Edited on 5-8-2022 by stoichiometric_steve]
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Rainwater
National Hazard
Posts: 938
Registered: 22-12-2021
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Mood: Break'n glass & kick'n a's
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Do what is right, even when no one is watching.
Matthew 24
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brubei
Hazard to Others
Posts: 188
Registered: 8-3-2015
Location: France
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Brace yourself.
I live in forest, ready to burn all trees to get heat !
I'm French so excuse my language
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stoichiometric_steve
National Hazard
Posts: 827
Registered: 14-12-2005
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Let's hope the next heat wave/drought won't beat you to it.
[Edited on 5-8-2022 by stoichiometric_steve]
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WGTR
National Hazard
Posts: 971
Registered: 29-9-2013
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I have a long-time German friend, a “little sister”, that tells me about it. This isn’t a good situation right now. She is still having
trouble buying sunflower oil and flour. She said “crazy Germans” were crossing the border into France to buy baking goods, leaving the stores
empty with shopping carts piled high, panic buying mostly.
Winter in the Texas Hill Country is colder than most people would think. We had no power for about a week, with -14.4C temperatures. Keep lots of
warm blankets, lots of stored water to use in the bathroom and kitchen, and non-perishable food. I have a ventless propane fireplace. This was the
only thing that kept the house somewhat warm. I also keep a large battery with an inverter to keep the phone charged up and keep the internet modem
working (we have fiber).
When things go south, you only have your neighbors to help and to help you. It’s good to make plans with them to see who has what skills and
resources. One may have a water well, but a different neighbor may have a solar powered battery backup. With both you can pump water for example.
If one has the room, a solar panel is actually a good load for another solar panel. Most people don’t know that. A 72-cell solar panel outside can
transfer heating to a 60-cell panel indoors. Instead of solar panels indoors one can use a series diode string with enough power dissipation rating.
It may be enough for heating up a room during the day, especially since German housing construction is more…solid…than here in the US.
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Johnny Cappone
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I am extremely saddened by the way things are unfolding in Europe due to energy policies based not on solid science, pragmatism and long-term
foresight, but on political pressure from obscure groups.
France was the only country on that continent that I have visited so far, a charismatic and welcoming people who do not deserve to suffer because of
the wrong decisions of political agents who rarely suffer the consequences of the measures they impose. I have some friends in Germany who also tell
me that the situation there is not good either.
The last two years have been especially difficult for the world and the possibility of catastrophic events not just in Europe but across the world is
frightening and becoming more and more real. I really hope that this will all be over soon and that the European leaders will consider tackling the
situation more forcefully.
Our hearts and minds are with you all.
From South America, Johnny.
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j_sum1
Administrator
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This was all predicted.
Those who wanted to talk about were labelled as cranks and science deniers and silenced.
Australia is only a couple of steps behind Germany in terms of irresponsible energy policy.
No indication that anyone here is going to learn either. Looks like we too will have large scale economic and social collapse before we turn the
corner.
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Σldritch
Hazard to Others
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Registered: 22-3-2016
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I'll go one step further: this was all planned. Calling these politicians and propagandists responsible incompetent is giving them too much credit.
There is no need for any of this to happen - but now, due to these obscure groups - it looks like it is. Question is just to which degree.
Anyway, those who see this situation now for what it is, may be receptable to consider this idea/advice seriously: if you need to heat using
electricity check this out first: https://condensed-plasmoids.com/
I especially want to bring this quote to light:
| Quote: | * Built a 1.3” wide, 12” long reactor producing 2.9 kW of hot water with 840 W of input (COP of 3.4)
* Found that cavitation causes all sorts of transmutations
* Accidentally became radiation sick after an experiment in 2009. Sickness lasted for more than a year
* More details: https://nanospireinc.com/Fusion.html
* Holds US Patents 6,960,307 and 7,517,430 on this discoveries
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And i will note that if you are trying to make heat, you can only really improve your efficiency in the case of this method. There are others though.
And if it was not clear enough this crisis was manufactured: there it is.
Finally, until someone comes up with a better way to organise this; if you are in Scandinavia consider sending me a PM.
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arkoma
Redneck Overlord
Posts: 1763
Registered: 3-2-2014
Location: On a Big Blue Marble hurtling through space
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WGTR--hadn't thought of a backup power source for the fiber modem. Good idea.
"We believe the knowledge and cultural heritage of mankind should be accessible to all people around the world, regardless of their wealth, social
status, nationality, citizenship, etc" z-lib
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WGTR
National Hazard
Posts: 971
Registered: 29-9-2013
Location: Online
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Thanks! You always need reliable power for the “little” things!
Another tip is that I store a gas powered generator inside. This keeps it warm in between uses. It’s easy to prime and get it ready indoors before
wheeling it outside (note to everybody: NEVER start or operate a generator indoors!). It’s also a good idea to let the generator run for a few
minutes every weekend to keep it operational.
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Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4619
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
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Mood: PhD candidate!
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No. Nobody should be taking crackpot cold fusion schemes seriously
under any circumstances…
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Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1726
Registered: 24-9-2005
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Mood: Bored
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Stop being so dramatic. Society isn't some fragile flower, it's what everybody wants. Sure it can get bad, power rationing, supply issues and whatnot.
But society won't break over one bad winter,everybody knows that to survive in the long run we are better of cooperating.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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Σldritch
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Registered: 22-3-2016
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Excuse me? Next, you'll tell me not to believe crackpot theories like informed self-interest, viruses and toxic rocks emitting radiation able to power
cities when carefully arranged. Imagine if such a technology existed! Oh, wait, it does. Wish we had it here in Europe. Also, your welder would not
work nearly as well, or at all, without this 'cold' (non-equilibrium would be more accurate without going into details) fusion. Just because you don't
understand it does not mean it does not happen.
| Quote: |
Stop being so dramatic. Society isn't some fragile flower, it's what everybody wants. Sure it can get bad, power rationing, supply issues and whatnot.
But society won't break over one bad winter,everybody knows that to survive in the long run we are better of cooperating.
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No gas, no Haber-Bosch, no ammonia. No ammonia, no food. This is happening at the time of an energy crisis as well as a hunger crisis in MENA with a
political class happy to import migrants to sow division among their enemies. The same political class which has declared war against the rural
population, namely farmers (look at what is happening in the Netherlands for example), and is all too eager to find distractions from the public
health crisis resulting from their crimes against humanity during the COVID crisis. They are clamoring to their power as much as for greed as for to
prevent a new government(s) to uncover their crimes, willingly or not.They are now dependent on that power to stay alive, such is their weaknes, they
will not let go. Then, obviously, no gas, no energy. No energy, no industry - at all! No industry, no medication for the largely mutilated (dependant)
population. No spare parts. All this is exacerbated by the sanctions. All this is to say it can get really, REALLY, bad.
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clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2800
Registered: 3-11-2013
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Mood: Big
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I had the idea that one could fill airships with methane (a lifting gas!) and use them to transport natural gas across the Atlantic.
The Hindenburg had a volume of about 200,000 m^3, and required 4-5 days to cross the Atlantic. Europe needs around a billion cubic meters of gas, so
around a thousand Hindenburgs would do nicely. But the airships must then be deflated and sent back by ship; this is a little difficult. Apparently, I
am not the first to think of it:
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/05/concept_natural.htm...
https://lynceans.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Shell-AD_Met...
Of course, it would be even more convenient if natural gas plants could be converted to burn hydrogen, which is a much better lifting gas, and would
allow a simpler airship design. Hydrogen is easily produced from natural gas by reaction with steam. Unfortunately, hydrogen is extremely corrosive to
normal turbine components. (In fact, transporting H2 by airship as a means of shipping energy probably makes more sense than using hydrogen
as a means of storing energy).
While this could probably have been done if we had started in 2014, it's hard to imagine building a fleet of airships to transport US/Canadian natural
gas to Europe today, to be finished by December. Not only do we barely have time to build the airships, we would also have to build the
factories in which we build the airships!
There has been a colossal lack of preparation. While Germany has been panned in the Anglosphere for "appeasement" of Russia w.r.t. Ukraine, in fact
they have been splitting the baby. Merkel pushed Yanukovych to associate with the EU in 2013, despite clear Russian objections. But at the same time,
Germany continued to implement a policy of Russian energy dependence. You can fight Russia or depend on Russia, but you better not do both.
Anyone familiar with the history knows that Ukraine's independence has been a sore spot for Russia since 1991. Before the Soviet coup against
Gorbachev, there was little appetite in Ukraine and Belarus for independence. The USSR was seen as a source of stability and useful trade relations.
After the coup, it was a liability, and the population and politicians changed course. This has always been viewed as a deep regret within Russia.
Ukraine joining the EU was wildly unpopular within Russia, but demanded by Western Europeans, who at the same time saw themselves as moderates taking
a measured stance in contrast to Anglo-American anti-Russian attitudes.
In reality, the Continentals were just clueless. It's one thing to slap Russia, but quite another to do so and not expect them to see it as an insult.
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Texium
Administrator
Posts: 4619
Registered: 11-1-2014
Location: Salt Lake City
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That's where you're wrong. I
understand it very well. I understand that the evidence for your so-called "low energy nuclear reactions" is a mixture of wishful thinking,
misconstrued results, and flat out lies. I can't believe people still buy into this crap.
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Σldritch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 310
Registered: 22-3-2016
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Mood: No Mood
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Quote: Originally posted by Texium  |
That's where you're wrong. I understand it very well. I understand that the evidence for your so-called "low energy nuclear reactions" is a mixture of
wishful thinking, misconstrued results, and flat out lies. I can't believe people still buy into this crap. |
Ok, you caught me, that line was perhaps phrased more provocatively than necessary but IIRC you refuse to read the document. I can't take your
dismissals seriously, nor should anyone, when you have not even read it. As long as that remains the case I think your criticism amounts to mere
foolishness at best and insults at worst. If you must voice it do so in the relevant thread where it is somewhat on topic at least.
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j_sum1
Administrator
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On the issue of fusion, there is still an awful lot of technological obstacles to be overcome before we attain anything resembling feasibility. I
personally doubt we will ever get there.
That said, there is an awful lot of untapped potential for low cost, environmentally friendly fission energy that we have not realised yet. Of course
there is currently resistance to adopting fission as an energy source, for mostly scaremongering reasons. This resistance is worldwide. About the
only positive I see of the current large-scale investment in wind and solar is that when it all comes crashing down (and it will) there may be a
greater willingness to embrace fission. If anything useful does happen in the field of fusion then that will be a bonus but it is not something that
I think we should be banking on.
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Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1726
Registered: 24-9-2005
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What are you talking about? Europe has a lot of gas, oil and coal. Maybe not enough, but it's not like everything stops dead in it's tracks the moment
there is a shortage. And the rest of the world doesn't just stop existing...
Yes it might get bad. Or at least worse than it's been for a long time. But it's not the end of the civilization.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
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Energy is going to be expensive as fuck, and maybe industry is going to be put on a ration. But come on, Russia was delivering 10-15% of the European
gas, coal and oil can come from other places. nothing the loss of can't be managed.
I just closed a new energy contract for a year, starting in four months, paying 2.60 euro per m3 gas and 60/80 cents per kWh low/high. I pay 1.30
26/35 now. Is that expensive? Yes. Will it collapse society? No. Hopefully after this contract things have calmed down.
There is enough gas and infrastructure in Groningen to replace Russian gas in weeks. If what you are afraid of would really happen, the people of
Groningen would just have to suffer some more earthquakes, and they would if necessary.
But apocalypse? Don't be ridiculous.
[Edited on 7-8-2022 by Tsjerk]
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MadHatter
International Hazard
Posts: 1347
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
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Mood: Enjoying retirement
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Nuclear Fission
I am 100% in support of nuclear fission and have been for decades. The reactor
accidents in the past are not justification for stopping its use. The "green"
technologies are useful and they contribute to the power grid but will never replace
fission. Reliability and continuity are necessary. The one "green" power that is
generally reliable is hydroelectric unless the source of water dries up. Even that
technology requires substantial construction costs and periodic maintenance.
The biggest problem is the same as always - politicians. There are those who
make the rules and those who are ruled by them. The rule makers exempt
themselves from the rules because they perceive themselves as the the elite who
need to dominate the rest of us. The rest of us should not suffer because of their
snobbery. Don't tell us to give up our hydrocarbon powered cars/trucks and then
fly off in a massive CO2 generating jet aircraft to private meetings to determine
how the rest of us should live.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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Herr Haber
International Hazard
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Registered: 29-1-2016
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| Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara |
While this could probably have been done if we had started in 2014, it's hard to imagine building a fleet of airships to transport US/Canadian natural
gas to Europe today, to be finished by December. Not only do we barely have time to build the airships, we would also have to build the
factories in which we build the airships!
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Last time someone told the Americans "it would take the ressources of a whole country it was about making an atomic bomb.
Coincidence ? Tomorrow is the 9th of August. Some decades ago a plutonium device exploded over Nagasaki. Knowing how big the stock was just years
before... well, you all know the history.
But that's all out of topic and your project would not work anyway.
German "Grünen" would certainly object to all the noise those airships would make and block it as they've made France close several reactors. Bird
lovers would side with them obviously. France says one thing but does something entirely different. It managed to lose the decades it had in advance
in nuclear technology because of sellout politicians.
Not really a prepper, maybe some good habits picked up from the Scouts but if something like Covid strikes again, the war in Ukraine expands out of
it's border or China tries something really stupid while we're all watching Russia do something really really stupid I'll be more than ready this
time.
Marathon, trail food is so much better than MRE's 
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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RogueRose
International Hazard
Posts: 1596
Registered: 16-6-2014
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I'd like to point out one thing that should be pretty obvious but unfortunately it seems it is not. If you are running a generator it is producing 2
things (well 3 if you include exhaust gases/CO2) - electricity & heat. In most cases only one is used & that is the electricity and this is
such a massive waste b/c generators are so inefficient (especially small ones) the majority of the energy consumed is actually turned into heat.
There are a number of ways to capture the heat from a generator and it is much easier to do with a liquid cooled system as you can use the coolant
that is coming off the engine as a heat source for anything from hot water to heating a room.
I'll add more later, but this is something people should think about but I have to get to work..
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Σldritch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 310
Registered: 22-3-2016
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| Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen |
What are you talking about? Europe has a lot of gas, oil and coal. Maybe not enough, but it's not like everything stops dead in it's tracks the moment
there is a shortage. And the rest of the world doesn't just stop existing...
Yes it might get bad. Or at least worse than it's been for a long time. But it's not the end of the civilization. |
Oh yeah, I forget everyone is not aware of this: the Euro is going down the toilet. The financial system of the West has been a ticking time bomb
since 1971. It almost exploded 2008 whence we entered a new financial system; that of the central bank cartel that lasted until 2019 when American
banks stopped taking European debt as collateral. They did this due to the European banks trying to drag everyone down with them (the great reset).
The FED has since then raised rates and is now working against the European banks and not with them, trying to avoid itself imploding too. So knowing
this: there is a financial crisis coming, probably no later than by the end of this year, too. But the great reset is still being pushed, the
situation getting worse and worse, yet the real crisis has not yet even arrived! And while it may not be the end of civilization, it will most likely
be the end of the EU, if not western civilization, and/or the West. Compare it to the Chinese or Russian civil war or the fall of the USSR.
I hope that was coherent enough, I'm not the right person to explain this nor do I entirely grasp the current situation myself.
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Metallophile
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The methane airship idea is clever, but I think air resistance would make this too inefficient. Besides, we can already float natural gas across the
ocean using LNG tankers. I'm not really sure why we're not doing this already?
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Organikum
resurrected
Posts: 2339
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Europe
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Mood: frustrated
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The end of the world is nigh!
Wait! I think I heard this before.
Won't happen though. All empty promises again.
Not being able to buy toilet paper or sunflower oil is not exactly the end of the world as we know it but a mere inconvenience which does not even
come near to what the majority of the worlds population has to endure every day. Spoiled brats syndrome I would say.
The Euro is not collapsing, the per capita dept in Europe is a fraction of the one in the USA and devaluation of the Euro may be be bad for holidays
but it will not curb exports but boost them and more profit for european companies is ahead. And before anybody really freezes this winter we open
Nordstream II - what we should have done from starters and fuck US fracking gas and the political blackmail coming with it. As the US has always used
economic means for political reasons whilst the russian gas comes since 50 years and there was never an attempt to blackmail neverminding the
political climate.
So Armageddon is off.
PS: Ukraine was and is all the time happily taking the billions in transit fees for russian gas and they have not cut the pipelines so they better
stfu.
[Edited on 8-8-2022 by Organikum]
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