Mush
National Hazard
Posts: 633
Registered: 27-12-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Glyphosate Roundup Ban in the EU by the end of 2022
It's good for the environment bad for home chemists.
Glyphosate weedkillers are great source of different amines.
Some EU countries, North American states have banned Roundup already.
Glyphosate is currently approved in the EU until 15 December 2022
https://ec.europa.eu/food/plant/pesticides/glyphosate_en
There is nothing new here,it was all over the news months ago.
I would like to draw attention to this upcoming change before it's too late.
The same thing had happened to DCM, nitromethane etc.
Losing a good, OTC chemical always a shock.
|
|
|
mackolol
Hazard to Others
Posts: 459
Registered: 26-10-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Funky
|
|
I don't know but nitromethane and DCM are still available to me in EU.
And as for glyphosate ban, I think it will have similar impact as DDT ban. There was a thread on SM and someone have said, that his grandfather has
bought very big quantity of DDT just before the ban, so he could carry on for few next years.
Glyphosate is not bad for environment though. It's decomposition in environment is quite quick and the products are ECO friendly. It is said to be
unhealthy to humans though, but different sources give different data. The fact that a lot of recent plantations are treated with glyphosate and that
we actually eat it in small quantities is the reason I think.
If someone knows more about the toxicity of glyphosate, reply, I'm curious.
[Edited on 26-6-2020 by mackolol]
|
|
|
stoichiometric_steve
National Hazard
Posts: 827
Registered: 14-12-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: satyric
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Mush  | It's good for the environment bad for home chemists.
Glyphosate weedkillers are great source of different amines. |
Which amines exactly? I don't get it.
|
|
|
karlos³
International Hazard
Posts: 1520
Registered: 10-1-2011
Location: yes!
Member Is Offline
Mood: oxazolidinic 8)
|
|
Isopropylamine at least, I don't know how anything else though.
|
|
|
Mush
National Hazard
Posts: 633
Registered: 27-12-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by mackolol | I don't know but nitromethane and DCM are still available to me in EU.
And as for glyphosate ban, I think it will have similar impact as DDT ban. There was a thread on SM and someone have said, that his grandfather has
bought very big quantity of DDT just before the ban, so he could carry on for few next years.
Glyphosate is not bad for environment though. It's decomposition in environment is quite quick and the products are ECO friendly. It is said to be
unhealthy to humans though, but different sources give different data. The fact that a lot of recent plantations are treated with glyphosate and that
we actually eat it in small quantities is the reason I think.
If someone knows more about the toxicity of glyphosate, reply, I'm curious.
[Edited on 26-6-2020 by mackolol] |
Indeed, I wasn't too precise,probably bad for mammals.
I was also wrong using plural. Dicamba which is a different type of herbicide (Dicamba-dimethylammonium -> dimethylamine source) from Syngenta
still available.
Selling 100% nitromethane (explosive precursor) to general public is illegal. DCM use also restricted. Although, both can be acquired.
AMINE SALTS OF CARBOXYLIC ACID HERBICIDES
United States Patent Application 20180303092
Kind Code:
A1
Abstract:
The invention generally involves combining specialty amines with herbicidal carboxylic acids to form a new generation of salts with improved
characteristics. The salts contain a cation of an amine and an anion of a carboxylic acid herbicide. The amine is advantageously selected from
mono-isobutylamine (MIBA), N-methylaminoethanol (MMEA), dimethylaminopropylamine (DMAPA), 2-dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE), methyldiethanolamine (MDEA),
and 1,2-diaminopropane (1,2-DAP). The amine-herbicide combinations may possess one or more improved characteristics, including maximum loading,
wettability, drift, viscosity, and volatilization.
[Edited on 27-6-2020 by Mush]
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6336
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
I don't know where this will go. It seems there is a market for a fast-acting broad spectrum herbicide with no residue.
Around here it is possible to buy herbicides based on ammonium nonanoate. Per functional dosage it is about four times the price. Apparently both
herbicides together gives a spectacular result.
I can see the marketing gurus latching onto this and promoting an ultra effective "low glyphosate" product. In which case, Roundup will be with us for
a while yet. I don't see it being removed without an alternative in place.
|
|
|
Refinery
Hazard to Others
Posts: 371
Registered: 17-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Still
|
|
Most consumer chemical feedstocks are so expensive per unit that it is generally better idea to obtain the stuff from somewhere else. The price can
easily go to 40-100$ per liter/kg, not including work input to isolate the compound. Various exceptions exist. For small amounts used in experiments
this does not really matter, though. The biggest PITA in my opinion is the "all-natural" trend in which all products are diluted or substituted with
something that is practically inert, or some simple formulations are changed into complex, non-sense stuff. A paint remover that was mostly benzyl
alcohol and a phlegmatizer was rebranded into something that contains ten different bull*t compounds that serve no use for anything reasonable - and
surprise, the price went up 50%. I wonder though, who will pay 40 bucks for half a liter can that can remove few sq m2 of paint? Another example are
consumer fertilizers that contain up to 70% of inert fillers that serve no purpose at all.
Establishing a company in most EU jurisdictions is so easy that it should not be an issue to a more involved amateur. Some services can offer the
registration even for free.
|
|
|
mackolol
Hazard to Others
Posts: 459
Registered: 26-10-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Funky
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Mush |
AMINE SALTS OF CARBOXYLIC ACID HERBICIDES
United States Patent Application 20180303092
Kind Code:
A1
Abstract:
The invention generally involves combining specialty amines with herbicidal carboxylic acids to form a new generation of salts with improved
characteristics. The salts contain a cation of an amine and an anion of a carboxylic acid herbicide. The amine is advantageously selected from
mono-isobutylamine (MIBA), N-methylaminoethanol (MMEA), dimethylaminopropylamine (DMAPA), 2-dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE), methyldiethanolamine (MDEA),
and 1,2-diaminopropane (1,2-DAP). The amine-herbicide combinations may possess one or more improved characteristics, including maximum loading,
wettability, drift, viscosity, and volatilization.
[Edited on 27-6-2020 by Mush] |
That's interesting, thanks for sharing the data. I was wondering lately, why herbicides are sold as different amine salts and what the advantages are.
Now I know 
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
If roundup goes that's really the only source for an otc amine that isn't ammonia.
I've seen a few dimethylamine product as well in the same aisle as roundup but I don't think there was much %wise as to make it worthwhile.dicamba
looks interesting as a possible trialkoxy benzene ring precursor if one is inclined to need a 2,3,6, trialkoxy ring formation.
|
|
|
Eddie Current
Hazard to Self
Posts: 78
Registered: 25-7-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
An interesting paper:
https://escholarship.org/content/qt0zf4f1zt/qt0zf4f1zt.pdf?t...
[Edited on 29-6-2020 by Eddie Current]
|
|
|
Refinery
Hazard to Others
Posts: 371
Registered: 17-2-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Still
|
|
Just out of curiosity, what glyphosate can be used to synthesize?
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
Not too much, but glyphosate is usually sold as the salt of isopropylamine which is quite hard to synthesize without hydroxylamine.
|
|
|
Corrosive Joeseph
National Hazard
Posts: 915
Registered: 17-5-2015
Location: The Other Place
Member Is Offline
Mood: Cyclic
|
|
Just for the record....
Where I am, originally, the glyphosate salt of isopropylamine Round-up was the only available product, but it disappeared from hardware store shelves
around here about 2 years ago and was replaced by the type using the potassium counter-ion..... This is still the main product, I never saw the former
for sale again in my locale.
/CJ
Being well adjusted to a sick society is no measure of one's mental health
|
|
|
Abromination
Hazard to Others
Posts: 432
Registered: 10-7-2018
Location: Alaska
Member Is Offline
Mood: 1,4 tar
|
|
Amines should still be available even if glyphosate is still phased out, DEET can be hydrolysed to form diethylamine. I don’t see that going away
any time soon.
[Edited on 6-29-20 by Abromination]
List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, B, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Bi, Am
Last Acquired: B
Next: Na
-------------- |
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
