NonEthicalPyrotechnics
Harmless
Posts: 12
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
Sodium fluoride synthesis? [safety issues concerning HF]
Hello everyone! Would I be able to prepare NaF just by neutralizing a solution of HF with sodium carbonate?
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by NonEthicalPyrotechnics]
[edit by mod] title change
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by j_sum1]
|
|
|
Opylation
Hazard to Others
Posts: 131
Registered: 30-8-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
Please avoid using HF until you have spent many years practicing chemistry. HF is dangerous not because it is a strong acid, it actually is relatively
benign, close to acetic acid, but because the fluoride ion will bind to almost anything above any other atom. If you spill HF on your skin the
fluoride ion will get into your tissues and bone and cause necrosis over long periods of time. And the worst part is you will not even feel it. Will
not feel any different than water, you may not even notice it. Also, you cannot use HF with borosilicate glass for the same reason, it will etch glass
terribly
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by Opylation]
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by Opylation]
|
|
|
NonEthicalPyrotechnics
Harmless
Posts: 12
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
I understand this... I would just like to know if this method would produce sodium fluoride in a cost effective way? (probably could've worded the
question better)I have a jug of 3 molar HF and i've worked with it before while being very careful not to get any on me because of how deadly it is. I
have an HF clean up kit and I always have someone with me in case shit hits the fan. Also I understand the borosilicate thing, you have to use PTFE
labware (which I have access to) so I have this HF and I wanted to try and prepare sodium fluoride because I can't think of anything else to do with
it... I'm just trying to get confirmation that it works before I try it because somebody on here is bound to have more experience than me
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by NonEthicalPyrotechnics]
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6333
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
HF is a far more useful reagent than NaF.
This is like an alchemist trying to turn gold into lead.
If you have no use for HF then find a way to pass it on to someone who can use it.
On the safety front, even in the middle of your statement that you have used it before, know the dangers and have a clean-up kit, you come across as
flippant. This stuff is not to be trifled with.
The level of question you are asking (simple acid base chemistry) indicates that you have nowhere near enough knowledge or experience to handle HF
safely. I would estimate that 75% of the members of this board would not touch the stuff. Most chemists find a way to avoid it.
|
|
|
BromicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 3253
Registered: 13-7-2003
Location: Wisconsin
Member Is Offline
Mood: Rock n' Roll
|
|
Yes, it would work - the fact that you have to ask though is worrisome. The issue with neutralizing acids with carbonates is the spatter generated
from the bubbles. Especially the tiny bubbles that break the surface. You're better going with a hydroxide to prevent the bubbling/frothing issues.
|
|
|
NonEthicalPyrotechnics
Harmless
Posts: 12
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
So i'm taking this as it's not cost effective at all and I should just buy sodium fluoride. I'm still gonna try it tomorrow though. However I would
like to note I do tend to come across like I don't really have much safety in mind but I just find it fun to work with extremely hazardous things.
j_sum1 you seem to sound like you have some experience have you worked with HF before?
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by NonEthicalPyrotechnics]
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6333
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by NonEthicalPyrotechnics  | So i'm taking this as it's not cost effective at all and I should just buy sodium fluoride. I'm still gonna try it tomorrow though. However I would
like to note I do tend to come across like I don't really have much safety in mind but I just find it fun to work with extremely hazardous things.
j_sum1 you seem to sound like you have some experience have you worked with HF before?
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by NonEthicalPyrotechnics] |
I have used dilute HF in ethanol once as an etchant. I used a couple of drops. I did not prepare the solutions. I do not consider myself to have
enough experience to handle it. And I have no need.
If I did have a need I would first devote a number of hours to research. I would spend money to ensure I had all appropriate equipment and safety gear
in place. And I would have ppe to infinity and beyond.
A quick look at my posting history and you can tell I am not risk averse. I am currently recovering from a broken pelvis sustained from a 5m cliff
fall. A year ago I had a beaker blow up in my hand and needed glass dug out and 47 stitches. But HF is off limits even if I have used it before.
I am shifting this thread to Responsible Practices since there is much more to discuss on the safety issues than the chemistry you were asking about.
|
|
|
j_sum1
|
Thread Moved
8-5-2020 at 18:39 |
NonEthicalPyrotechnics
Harmless
Posts: 12
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by j_sum1 | | Quote: Originally posted by NonEthicalPyrotechnics | So i'm taking this as it's not cost effective at all and I should just buy sodium fluoride. I'm still gonna try it tomorrow though. However I would
like to note I do tend to come across like I don't really have much safety in mind but I just find it fun to work with extremely hazardous things.
j_sum1 you seem to sound like you have some experience have you worked with HF before?
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by NonEthicalPyrotechnics] |
I have used dilute HF in ethanol once as an etchant. I used a couple of drops. I did not prepare the solutions. I do not consider myself to have
enough experience to handle it. And I have no need.
If I did have a need I would first devote a number of hours to research. I would spend money to ensure I had all appropriate equipment and safety gear
in place. And I would have ppe to infinity and beyond.
A quick look at my posting history and you can tell I am not risk averse. I am currently recovering from a broken pelvis sustained from a 5m cliff
fall. A year ago I had a beaker blow up in my hand and needed glass dug out and 47 stitches. But HF is off limits even if I have used it before.
I am shifting this thread to Responsible Practices since there is much more to discuss on the safety issues than the chemistry you were asking about.
|
I respect that decision man and i'll go ahead and not use the acid that seems like the best decision. I might hand it off to someone who knows how to
use it. You're right and I should have more than just a few years of home chemistry experience before handling it. I realized maybe its better not to
die
[Edited on 9-5-2020 by NonEthicalPyrotechnics]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
