| Pages:
1
..
64
65
66 |
oberkarteufel
Harmless
Posts: 47
Registered: 11-12-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mayonesium sulfate
|
|
Thank you for your answer. Currently I don't have an access to (or rather, excess money to spend) these alcohols, so in the fortunate event I have the
place again to work further on this reaction I will rather try again the menthol, changing other variables.
I've checked all nearby stores (and some further ones) and all brands of "hypoallergenic" baby oil contained things like vitamins, palmitate esters,
etc. Thus, liquid paraffin I used looks like the best option, since it's reasonably pure, cheap and available in virtually every pharmacy.
I also want to strongly encourage you to try this reaction.
|
|
|
DavidJR
National Hazard
Posts: 908
Registered: 1-1-2018
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tired
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by oberkarteufel  | Thank you for your answer. Currently I don't have an access to (or rather, excess money to spend) these alcohols, so in the fortunate event I have the
place again to work further on this reaction I will rather try again the menthol, changing other variables.
I've checked all nearby stores (and some further ones) and all brands of "hypoallergenic" baby oil contained things like vitamins, palmitate esters,
etc. Thus, liquid paraffin I used looks like the best option, since it's reasonably pure, cheap and available in virtually every pharmacy.
I also want to strongly encourage you to try this reaction. |
I tried making potassium with KOH, menthol, and baby oil and it didn't work. The baby oil I bought does claim to be hypoallergenic but according to
the ingredients it contains isopropyl myristate and "parfum" (god knows what that is).
|
|
|
walruslover69
Hazard to Others
Posts: 234
Registered: 21-12-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I have tried with walmart brand hypoallergenic baby oil with some sort of fragrance with baffling results. The first attempt it went perfectly with
maybe 5g of potassium being synthesized, but i have never been able to replicate the results. The second time huge plumes of white fog (not smoke)
were generated after it reached ~150C. My 3rd and 4th attempts were very similar to what you reported with nothing happening except the oil turning a
tan or light brown color.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
I'm pretty sure the white fog or smoke is the parfum being boiled out as it was when I tried baby oil heating baths.
[Edited on 15-5-2019 by draculic acid69]
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Has anyone else reported success with menthol? I don't recall that being used for this before.
It's good practice to start by replicating a known successful process first, then trying modifications.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Are you completely unaware of nurdrages research into sodium production using the same rxn as the KOH method above?
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
If you aren't here's where it's at: NaOH/mg in baby oil w/menthol catalyst= Na metal.
People are now trying to make potassium with menthol catalyst. Pok has made rubidium and nurdrage is trying to do lithium with the same rxn.my theory
is K might be too big to fit on the menthol molecule the way sodium does and the steric hindrance is affected.might have too stick to tertiary
alcohols for K formation.
|
|
|
MrHomeScientist
International Hazard
Posts: 1806
Registered: 24-10-2010
Location: Flerovium
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Not at all. I haven't watched every video though; does he succeed with menthol in one of them? That would have been more helpful information than a
personal attack.
Even if he did use menthol for sodium, that doesn't necessarily prove it will work for potassium.
Edit: I didn't see your second post. Thank you, that is much more valuable information. I'll have to watch the newer videos.
[Edited on 5-15-2019 by MrHomeScientist]
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Glad to be of help,yes he succeeded with menthol. If you watch all of his sodium videos it spells out the mechanism what works what doesn't etc etc.
|
|
|
oberkarteufel
Harmless
Posts: 47
Registered: 11-12-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mayonesium sulfate
|
|
Success!
Well, for longer I've been away from this topic than expected, but I'm back with some new results.
I have tried t-amyl alcohol as a catalyst...
... and well it worked!
I am also now sure that I have issues with insufficient power output of my hotplate. With a lot of hassle I was able to produce only these little
droplets of metalic potassium. Well, at least that's something.
I am inclined to think that either menthol isn't a suitable catalyst for producing potassium or that it is much less active than t-amyl alcohol.
Shame, because it's cheaper and easier to get... Anyway - achievement unlocked 
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
Nicely done.did u perform everything the same as the unsuccessful menthol runs?
|
|
|
oberkarteufel
Harmless
Posts: 47
Registered: 11-12-2018
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mayonesium sulfate
|
|
Yup, same paraffin oil from pharmacy, heating regime etc. IIRC Total time of heating (first for drying the mixture, then after adding a catalyst) was
5+ hours.
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
I think u just proved menthol doesnt work for potassium.
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6333
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by fotso | Funny thing. The minute you posted it I also found out and was reading it 
I immediately wanted to do this as well. However, I will make slight modifications, I will use i-PrOH instead of t-BuOH.
Also I don't know where to buy Shell D70 solvent, so i will use some high boiling hydrocarbon such as mineral
turpetine.
I will still have to order some magnesium. I have some ribbon, I think i will use that to try it this weekend, but it's not enough to prepare more
than a gram or two (I don't want to waste all the ribbon). |
You are going to want a tertiary alcohol as a catalyst. So isopropyl alcohol will not work.
Also, I think scaling down to a couple of grams will be problematic. Mg ribon is cheap. But if you can get something clean with a better surface
area, do so.
|
|
|
elementcollector1
International Hazard
Posts: 2684
Registered: 28-12-2011
Location: The Known Universe
Member Is Offline
Mood: Molten
|
|
Shell D70 isn't really the most important part - kerosene/lamp oil works just as well. I personally couldn't make drugstore mineral oil work, though.
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
|
|
|
draculic acid69
International Hazard
Posts: 1371
Registered: 2-8-2018
Member Is Offline
|
|
All the kerosene we get here in Australia is dyed blue which means distillation would be required.
[Edited on 21-12-2019 by draculic acid69]
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6333
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
I know it is a bit of a read, fotso. But these questions are answered within the thread. It is worth taking some time to go through it.
The tertiary alcohol (it must be tertiary) is a catalyst. The exact mechanism I forget but it is in here somewhere. Some limited success has been had
with candle wax but there are other better choices. What seems to be critical is that it is alaphitic and that it has a high enough boiling point.
Happy reading.
|
|
|
Pok
potassium Prometheus
Posts: 176
Registered: 5-12-2010
Member Is Offline
|
|
You are wasting your time. fotso just copies posts from other users.
|
|
|
Abromination
Hazard to Others
Posts: 432
Registered: 10-7-2018
Location: Alaska
Member Is Offline
Mood: 1,4 tar
|
|
Did you read what j_sum said? It has to be tertiary, you cant use isopropanol. Isopropanol is a secondary alcohol.
Please read the thread.
List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, B, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Bi, Am
Last Acquired: B
Next: Na
-------------- |
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3032
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
A catalyst boiling well below the reaction temperature in a liquid reaction is probably not a very good catalyst. Who would guess?
[Edited on 15-2-2020 by Tsjerk]
|
|
|
Abromination
Hazard to Others
Posts: 432
Registered: 10-7-2018
Location: Alaska
Member Is Offline
Mood: 1,4 tar
|
|
Also it looks like he literally copied his first post from earlier in the thread.
Tertiary butanol works fine as a catalyst, this has been discussed extensively and doesn’t need further debate.
List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, B, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Bi, Am
Last Acquired: B
Next: Na
-------------- |
|
|
charley1957
Hazard to Others
Posts: 166
Registered: 18-2-2012
Location: Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Beginning to cool off
|
|
Two summers ago I ordered some tert-butanol and when it arrived it was liquid, as I expected an alcohol would be. Just the other day I was checking
out my chemicals and found my tert-butanol had dried out, leaving a solid substance behind. So as I was researching how to reconstitute it, I was
looking through its physical properties and found that it is normally a solid. So when I first received it, it was in the hottest part of the Texas
desert summer, so it was above its melting point of about 80 degrees F. Well now it’s in the cold season and my lab is unheated so it is in its
natural state. It hadn’t “dried out” at all. My lesson learned was to not assume anything and to not jump to any early conclusions.
[Edited on Mar03-5-2021 by charley1957]
You can’t claim you drank all day if you didn’t start early in the morning.
|
|
|
isoPaarden
Harmless
Posts: 1
Registered: 25-7-2022
Member Is Offline
|
|
My K-Metal Synth looks a bit suss
Basically followed what DBX did but with a bubbler on top to monitor H2 production and I threw in a little K-Metal to dry it out (and protect the
glassware)
Isopar as mineral oil
2mg Powdered Magnesium
10g KOH
Slice of K-Metal
Heated to 150deg C and held until H2 production slowed
Added 3mg Powdered Magnesium
Heated to 180deg C (just below reflux)
Added 2mL of T-Butanol in small additions (went blue here) over 30 mins
Raised to reflux (just over 180deg C) and held for about 1 hr (started going red/purple)
[Edited on 25-7-2022 by isoPaarden]
  
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
64
65
66 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
