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Housane
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Sulfuric Acid in UK
Hi There
Does anyone know where to get sulfuric acid in the UK?
Housane
Green QD's so far
Feel free to correct grammar or incorect knknowledge. We are all learning.
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Sulaiman
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I recently bought one litre of drain unblocker conc. sulphuric acid off the shelf of my local hardware shop with no questions asked
even though there was a big red notice ... Trade only, EPP license required !
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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Housane
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Ok thanks I can't find it near me. How conc. is the acid made in electrolysis of CuSO4 using a Pb and Cu electrodes?
Green QD's so far
Feel free to correct grammar or incorect knknowledge. We are all learning.
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | How conc. is the acid made in electrolysis of CuSO4 using a Pb and Cu electrodes? |
If you can afford a working Pt anode, you can plate out the Cu and make literally any conc. of acid you want...
OTOH, a lead dioxide anode just might work?
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Pseudoscience
Harmless
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Go on eBay and search for one shot drain cleaner I’m pretty sure that 94% all you have to do is distil it
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j_sum1
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Quote: Originally posted by Housane  | | Ok thanks I can't find it near me. How conc. is the acid made in electrolysis of CuSO4 using a Pb and Cu electrodes? |
This is how I used to make my sulfuric acid. It is time-consuming and labour intensive. Ok, not that labour intensive once set up but it is a
painful process if you want any decent quantity.
I used a regulated power supply and a plastic peanut butter jar. A piece of lead flashing was the anode, which fairly quickly got coated in PbO2.
Copper wire cathode which accumulated dendrites of Cu.
50g of pentahydrate dissolved into 200mL of water. (I know more dissolves with prolonged stirring but I wanted something that was a quick set up of
five mins so that I could come back 24 hours later.) Current was calculated and regulated so that 110% of stoichiometric amount would react in 24
hours. Sometimes I would make up the next batch by dissolving more copper sulfate into the already made acid.
I would harvest the liquid and boil down several batches at once until it began to fume greatly: probably around 70%.
You can work out the yields: it is depressingly small. My little 100mL reagent bottle of concentrated sulfuric acid was quite precious.
I know that it is possible to increase the concentration, vessel size and current for faster production. But my method suited my needs at the time
and was designed to require minimal effort on my part.
110% of theoretical current is necessary to mitigate against inefficiencies and ohmic resistance. It was also important to not let the acid remain in
contact with the copper once electrolysis was turned off: traces of Cu2+ would find their way into the final product. I often ended up with a pale
green with some white anhydrous CuSO4 crystals precipitating out. But some of my batches were a lovely clear oily liquid and seemed to have high
purity.
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | You can work out the yields: it is depressingly small. My little 100mL reagent bottle of concentrated sulfuric acid was quite precious.
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Indeed, that is small...but that you got any, at all, is surprising, all by itself...
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Keras
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I’m surprised sulphuric acid is scheduled in the UK. In France you can get it freely in whatever quantity you like. It’s about €6 per litre.
[Edited on 28-6-2019 by Keras]
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hissingnoise
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Oh well, c'est la vie...
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Pseudoscience
Harmless
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| Quote: Originally posted by Keras | I’m surprised sulphuric acid is scheduled in the UK. In France you can get it freely in whatever quantity you like. It’s about €6 per litre.
[Edited on 28-6-2019 by Keras] |
I think you’ll find that’s because the immigrants were throwing it at each over
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | I think you’ll find that’s because the immigrants were throwing it at each over[sic] |
So, you don't like immigrants?
Any specific reason?
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Morgan
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https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-introduces-tou...
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j_sum1
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| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | | Quote: | | You can work out the yields: it is depressingly small. My little 100mL reagent bottle of concentrated sulfuric acid was quite precious.
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Indeed, that is small...but that you got any, at all, is surprising, all by itself...
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There is no getting around the fact that 100g of copper sulfate pentahydrate yields only 22mL of concentrated acid, required 21 amp hours of
electrolysis and will require boiling off at least 300mL of water.
So, yes, tedious. But definitely doable. Why would you be surprised that this is a viable method?
Added to the challenge is that this process is rough on electrodes and boiling down the acid requires caution. (Bumping anyone?)
I chose this method back when I was beginning, had very minimal equipment and did not have a source of sulfuric acid. I chose my volumes and current
to be manageable with the time and equipment I had. Five minutes per day switching batches over was not onerous.
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unionised
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| Quote: Originally posted by Pseudoscience | | Quote: Originally posted by Keras | I’m surprised sulphuric acid is scheduled in the UK. In France you can get it freely in whatever quantity you like. It’s about €6 per litre.
[Edited on 28-6-2019 by Keras] |
I think you’ll find that’s because the immigrants were throwing it at each over |
A lot of people were throwing it at each other.
Some were immigrants; many were not.
The practical outcome is that they " banned" H2SO4.
The same people are now throwing caustic/ bleach based drain cleaner over eachother.
The effect on skin is pretty much the same.
The effect on eyes is worse.
So, where you were getting people who were disfigured, you will now get people who are disfigured and blinded.
That's what happens when the government feels it "has to do something" and doesn't actually think things through.
That lack of rationality is substantially the same as what makes people say "immigrants were throwing it at each over ".
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hissingnoise
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| Quote: | | So, yes, tedious. But definitely doable. Why would you be surprised that this is a viable method? |
Because you used an oxidisable anode.
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nezza
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The UK government are scientifically illiterate autocrats who go in for idiotic over the top knee jerk reactions to problems usually making life
difficult for everyone not just the likely perps. Chlorates - ban them-explosive precursor. Hydrogen peroxide - Ban it-explosive precursor. Nitric
acid - Ban it-Acid AND explosive precursor. Sulphuric acid - Ban it-Acid. Meanwhile caustic alkalis are still freely available. As for "acid attacks"
they have increased hugely recently and are mainly done by non indigenes.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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Pseudoscience
Harmless
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| Quote: Originally posted by hissingnoise | | Quote: | | I think you’ll find that’s because the immigrants were throwing it at each over[sic] |
So, you don't like immigrants?
Any specific reason?
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I don’t have any issue with immigration. What I have an issue with is mass migration. Personally I don’t think half of our capital city should be
immigrants but here’s not the place for discussion
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Sulaiman
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@ Housane
Here in UK it is almost impossible to find concentrated sulfuric acid,
maybe you should look for sulphuric acid instead ? 
Or maybe battery acid ?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battery-Acid-1-Litre/dp/B077J1Q8XZ/...
Assuming that 1.28 is the s.g. then the acid is about 40% w/w
--------------------------------------------------
EPP allows sulphuric acid <15% w/w so it may be available but I've not seen any online lately.
[Edited on 30-6-2019 by Sulaiman]
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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unionised
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Well, that's good.
Because, of course, half the population isn't immigrants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London
Were you trying to spread propaganda on a science page without expecting to be fact checked?
As you say "here’s not the place for discussion".
A government pandering to the people who believe that sort of tosh are likely to ban sulphuric acid.
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hissingnoise
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Deep down we all know that racism is but one product of ignorance and ignorance is the only product of mental laziness.
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unionised
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Has anyone seen the topic lately?
Racism is among the things that can be deliberately induced or, at least, greatly enhanced by propaganda.
Some of that misinformation takes a lot of time and effort.
In some cases it also takes so much money that it exceeds the limits on campaign spending.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-s...
I have made dilute sulphuric acid by electrolysis of copper sulphate solution between a graphite anode and a lead cathode. (I used lead because lead
sulphate is fairly insoluble)
It was tedious, but it worked.
Unfortunately, the same numpties who banned H2SO4 have also banned H2O2 which blocks an easy option of oxidising SO2 to make H2SO4. I once wondered
about using an ozone generator in conjunction with burning sulphur, but I never got round to trying it.
There's a method which involves the use of NaHSO4 "disproportionating" in alcohol to give Na2SO4 and H2SO4 but I never tracked down practical details.
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Pseudoscience
Harmless
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Right in your own Wikipedia article 37% percent of the population were born outside of the U.K.. I will admit I was 13% off but to my defence I wrote
that down from memory. I don’t have an issue with them I have an issue with the cultural differences which make integration difficult
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Pseudoscience
Harmless
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| Quote: Originally posted by unionised | Has anyone seen the topic lately?
Racism is among the things that can be deliberately induced or, at least, greatly enhanced by propaganda.
Some of that misinformation takes a lot of time and effort.
In some cases it also takes so much money that it exceeds the limits on campaign spending.
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-s...
I have made dilute sulphuric acid by electrolysis of copper sulphate solution between a graphite anode and a lead cathode. (I used lead because lead
sulphate is fairly insoluble)
It was tedious, but it worked.
Unfortunately, the same numpties who banned H2SO4 have also banned H2O2 which blocks an easy option of oxidising SO2 to make H2SO4. I once wondered
about using an ozone generator in conjunction with burning sulphur, but I never got round to trying it.
There's a method which involves the use of NaHSO4 "disproportionating" in alcohol to give Na2SO4 and H2SO4 but I never tracked down practical details.
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They haven’t banned H2O2 they’ve just made anything over 12% illegal to possess. You could possible concentrate it using this method https://data.epo.org/publication-server/pdf-document/EP14166... though it might be a real pain in the proverbial to do for the amateur could
someone tell me what the point is of the rotating distillation flask?
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unionised
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"could someone tell me what the point is of the rotating distillation flask?"
Among other things, it reduces bumping. It also ensures that the material is well stirred and it can also give a larger surface for evaporation to
take place.
"You could possible concentrate it using this method "
You could, but it would be illegal because it's been banned or (in some weird use of the word) not banned- just made illegal to posses.
BTW re. "I don’t have an issue with them I have an issue with the cultural differences which make integration difficult" Is getting the wrong
numbers part of your culture?
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Tsjerk
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I know one can perfectly make TATP with 12% H2O2, but you have to start somewhere, don't you?
This was 500 grams of TATP detonating in a bus instead of a train as it was intended to.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/jul/07/terrorism.tr...
At least I understand where the politicians are coming from.
[Edited on 30-6-2019 by Tsjerk]
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