ChemistryForever
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red P in EU
Would buying 100g of red P in EU sound suspicious ?
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Abromination
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Buying that much red phosphorus most anywhere can seem suspicious, unfortunately.
List of materials made by ScienceMadness.org users:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nmJ8uq-h4IkXPxD5svnT...
--------------------------------
Elements Collected: H, Li, B, C, N, O, Mg, Al, Si, P, S, Fe, Ni, Cu, Zn, Ag, I, Au, Pb, Bi, Am
Last Acquired: B
Next: Na
-------------- |
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DavidJR
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I bought 250g and didn't have any problems.
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ChemistryForever
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Where did you buy that red P from ? I basically need it for P halides and to have like 10-20g maximum left over just to be there if I will ever need
it to use in pure form.
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j_sum1
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I just bought 250g from onyxmet in Poland. It is currently in transit to Australia. I am prepared to answer questions about it but I don't anticipate
problems.
They are pretty experienced and efficient and do what the can to make transit smooth.
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lordcookies24
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it would since so be ready to answers some questions if it comes too that, most likely won't but still.
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zed
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Red Phosphorus is difficult to purchase in the U.S..
Other places, perhaps not.
Big Pharma mightily resisted restrictions on Pseudo-Ephedrine sales in the U.S.. Law enforcement was frustrated by the impasse, and countered by
restricting Iodine and Phosphorus, sales; in order to block illicit Methamphetamine production.
There has been some easing on the control of Iodine sales. While Phosphorus remains a hard get in the U.S..
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ChemistryForever
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Waiting for your answer to see if they questioned you about that red P.
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j_sum1
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It will be at least a couple of weeks until it arrives. It was shipped yesterday.
It is a listed item: meaning that it is watched and that if you buy from Australian supplier you must complete a EUD (end user declaration).
Australian customs mostly check for glassware though. There is a chance it will pass through undetected.
My standard practice in ordering sensitive items is to open and check everything has shipped and is in order, and then leave it sitting in the box for
a couple of weeks. This, I think is the opposite of what a clan lab would do. And then, if the police do pay a visit, I can say, "Here's the package.
Here's how it arrived." I don't need to show them anything else unless they ask.
I will grab a business card and get them to record their visit in my lab journal. Any further questions and I will show them my element collection
and my list of experiments that I intend to do and record for my educational yt channel. Given that my chem hobby is closely linked with my role as a
science teacher, I don't think it is too hard for me to justify.
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DavidJR
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Quote: Originally posted by ChemistryForever  | | Where did you buy that red P from ? I basically need it for P halides and to have like 10-20g maximum left over just to be there if I will ever need
it to use in pure form. |
I got mine from limac.lv.
[Edited on 10-1-2019 by DavidJR]
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TheMrbunGee
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I bought 1kg from limac, no problems.
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woelen
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In the EU the purchase of red P is not an issue. I already purchased this element multiple times, my last purchase was at 4N purity real red P, free
of white P, for my element collection. I also have samples of other purities and I have it in the form of a very fine powder, but also much coarser
(like sand) material.
You have to be careful with buying red P though. There is good quality and safe red P, but there also is really dangerous and inferior stuff. Some
sellers have red P, which contains a lot of white P. One of the members on sciencemadness (belgian member pyro) had a terrible fire when he took some
red P from its container (he documented what happened on sciencemadness, you can find it all back with some searching, and he almost lost his father
in the fire). At that time I happened to have 200 grams of red P from the same seller and this stuff had a pungent smell of white phosphorus. After
pyro's accident I decided not to use that crappy red P and buy a new sample from a more reputable supplier. The inferior red P was very cheap (just a
few euros per 100 grams, 30 euros or so per kg) while having a purity of better than 99.8%. That low price made me buy it. It may contain 95% red P
and 4.8% white P and still be listed as 99.8% pure phosphorus! Good quality red P only has a faint smell of white P. Really good stuff is odorless. If
it has a very strong smell, then be careful, it may ignite spontaneously on a warm summer day when taken out of its container!
The production process of red P inherently leads to contamination with white P. It is made by heating white P and allowing the phosphorus to sublime
into a solid at a quite high temperature, so that it settles as red P. In this way you get very pure phosphorus, but the final product may be an
allotropic mix instead of a single allotrope if the process is not controlled precisely.
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fusso
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What shape and size does commercial red P look like? Is it like a powder like most other chemicals or larger grains/beads like I2?
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TheMrbunGee
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| Quote: Originally posted by fusso | | What shape and size does commercial red P look like? Is it like a powder like most other chemicals or larger grains/beads like I2?
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Limac.lv sells it powdered, similar to coffee creamer..
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woelen
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I have different samples.
I have 100 grams in the form of a very fine free flowing powder, with a nice brick-red/brown color (purchased at the now non-existent seller www.kno3.com from the UK). I like this sample very much. The red P is really fine and this makes it nicely reactive. It does not contain much
white P though, it only has a weak smell.
I have another 100 grams, which is much coarser. It is from Merck, a german supplier. I obtained it as old stock. It is not free-flowing, slightly
humid. It has a clearly noticeable smell, but the smell is not overpowering.
Then I have 200 grams of that dubious seller I mentioned in my previous post. This material has a fairly light red/brown color with a purple tinge, it
is free flowing, perfectly dry, and has a very strong smell. The granules have many different sizes, the largest are half a mm or so, but there also
is very fine powder in it. This is the stuff I do not use for experiments, too dangerous, due to risk of spontaneous ignition in contact with air. I
still have it around, bubble-wrap around suppliers' somewhat flimsy bottle. I don't know what I will do with it. Maybe burn it in a controlled way,
outside, or try to find a way to clean it.
My final and most recent sample is 20 grams of 99.99% red P (really 99.99% as red P, it was expensive at 20 euros per 10 grams). Perfectly odorless,
very uniform particle size and very uniform fairly dark red/brown color. I ampouled most of it in glass.
[Edited on 10-1-19 by woelen]
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yobbo II
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Just wondering could you you give red p a crude test for the presence of white p by blowing (gently) a flow of oxygen on it?
Some here
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Phosphor-rot-min-98/142872881870?has...
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Metacelsus
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | In the EU the purchase of red P is not an issue. I already purchased this element multiple times, my last purchase was at 4N purity real red P, free
of white P, for my element collection. I also have samples of other purities and I have it in the form of a very fine powder, but also much coarser
(like sand) material.
You have to be careful with buying red P though. There is good quality and safe red P, but there also is really dangerous and inferior stuff. Some
sellers have red P, which contains a lot of white P. One of the members on sciencemadness (belgian member pyro) had a terrible fire when he took some
red P from its container (he documented what happened on sciencemadness, you can find it all back with some searching, and he almost lost his father
in the fire). At that time I happened to have 200 grams of red P from the same seller and this stuff had a pungent smell of white phosphorus. After
pyro's accident I decided not to use that crappy red P and buy a new sample from a more reputable supplier. The inferior red P was very cheap (just a
few euros per 100 grams, 30 euros or so per kg) while having a purity of better than 99.8%. That low price made me buy it. It may contain 95% red P
and 4.8% white P and still be listed as 99.8% pure phosphorus! Good quality red P only has a faint smell of white P. Really good stuff is odorless. If
it has a very strong smell, then be careful, it may ignite spontaneously on a warm summer day when taken out of its container!
The production process of red P inherently leads to contamination with white P. It is made by heating white P and allowing the phosphorus to sublime
into a solid at a quite high temperature, so that it settles as red P. In this way you get very pure phosphorus, but the final product may be an
allotropic mix instead of a single allotrope if the process is not controlled precisely. |
The relevant thread by Pyro:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=23...
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VSEPR_VOID
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oi m8, do you got a loiscence for dat?
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
Within cells interlinked
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overvoltage
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According to this datasheet:
https://shop.es-drei.de/documents/spezifikation/SPEC_S100184...
The red P you linked contains no more than 0,003% white P.
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CobaltChloride
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Has anyone tested whether the red P sold by limac contains significant amounts of white P? I want to buy some, but I really don't want to have the
risk of it igniting spontaneously.
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TheMrbunGee
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| Quote: Originally posted by CobaltChloride | | Has anyone tested whether the red P sold by limac contains significant amounts of white P? I want to buy some, but I really don't want to have the
risk of it igniting spontaneously. |
I can test that, but I doubt it has a lot of white P in it, I have it for several months, I have opened container about 50 times, I have shook the
container and still have powder which has not ignited, the smell is there, but it is not strong.
How do I test it? With oxygen?
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CobaltChloride
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Well, considering you have 1kg of the stuff and it hasn't ignited at all until now, it would be pretty safe to assume it doesn't have nearly enough
white P to become pyrophoric.
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DavidJR
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I agree with these observations re Limac.lv's red phosphorus.
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