G_Lar
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Organic Waste Disposal
I'm pretty fresh out of organic chemistry I and II in college and I am trying to set up the basic provisions necessary to do recreational synthesis in
my downtime because the classes and labs fascinated me.
Anyhow, I am trying to figure out how I will dispose of my organic waste (both solid and liquid) in a way that will not destroy the environment and
contaminate my property. I looked at some local waste disposal facilities. The household hazardous waste company websites say they won't take reactive
or unknown chemicals. I would keep a log of my waste of course. The places that will dispose of organics seem to only accept from established
companies or small businesses, not a single person doing recreational synthesis in their garage; they don't seem like they will take chemical
drop-offs at their facilities.
How do you recommend I dispose of my organic waste?
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Deathunter88
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Quote: Originally posted by G_Lar  | I'm pretty fresh out of organic chemistry I and II in college and I am trying to set up the basic provisions necessary to do recreational synthesis in
my downtime because the classes and labs fascinated me.
Anyhow, I am trying to figure out how I will dispose of my organic waste (both solid and liquid) in a way that will not destroy the environment and
contaminate my property. I looked at some local waste disposal facilities. The household hazardous waste company websites say they won't take reactive
or unknown chemicals. I would keep a log of my waste of course. The places that will dispose of organics seem to only accept from established
companies or small businesses, not a single person doing recreational synthesis in their garage; they don't seem like they will take chemical
drop-offs at their facilities.
How do you recommend I dispose of my organic waste? |
What specific compounds are we talking about?
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VSEPR_VOID
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I would think that unless you are working with large amounts of water soluble heavy metal compounds its not that big a deal. I do not think it will
affect the city water so much if you dump a bit of phenol, a few grams of aniline, or even a liter of chloroform down the pipe.
That being said it all depends on what you are doing. What in particular do you plan to make? Will you be making simple hydrocarbons, azo dyes,
esters, organophosphates, or something similar? Maybe you could ask a local university or college what they do with their waste.
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CouchHatter
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There are similar posts to this one, they have some great answers. I decided upon the 'casing the chemical in concrete' solution, as it is cheap and
will basically be entombed forever. Not replacing the water that you'd normally mix concrete with, with your chemicals. Concrete is porous and it
would likely leach out this way. Instead, case your container inside concrete, then bury it or something.
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unionised
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For a lot of things a reasonable option is to add diesel fuel, pour it onto scrap timber or paper and burn it. It's particularly good if you have a
garden bonfire anyway.
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Reboot
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Please do NOT dump chlorinated solvents down the drain; they're a serious environmental problem. If you have a liter of chloroform, recover it.
Save halogenated solvents, redistill and reuse.
If you can burn things in your yard/area, that's a good option for small amounts of non-halogenated waste solvents.
Small amounts of dilute acid/base/non-toxic (relatively) salt solutions can go down the drain. Small amounts of solids can generally be put in the
general trash, with the exception of unusually toxic things like mercury and chromates. Landfills hate liquids. All things being equal, the same
amount of a chemical in a liter of water will bother them a lot more than the chemical in dry form.
Waste management is something to think about before you synthesize anything. Plan your work flow to minimize waste (such as by using more efficient
processes/smaller scale experiments) and avoid reagents that create special disposal problems (like mercury.)
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BromicAcid
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| Quote: Originally posted by Reboot | | Please do NOT dump chlorinated solvents down the drain; they're a serious environmental problem. If you have a liter of chloroform, recover it.
Save halogenated solvents, redistill and reuse. |
Totally agree. People in their back yards are not the only source of chloroform, it is regulated by the clean water act. If your local water
treatment facility starts spiking for halogenated compounds they can track down the source....
| Quote: | | The EPA limit for total trihalomethanes, a class of chemicals that includes chloroform, in drinking water is 100 micrograms per liter
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So that hundred milliliters your pour down your drain has now rendered thousands of liters of water undrinkable.
[Edited on 5/6/2018 by BromicAcid]
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unionised
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Fortunately, nobody is drinking the water that' gone down the drain so the fact that it's "undrinkable" hardly matters.
I flush 100 ml of chloroform down my drain and ten thousand people in my town flush the toilet.
Problem solved.
And that's before you remember that the water treatment system will remove it fairly well.
It's interesting to consider how much chloroform the water companies flush down the drain .
Chlorination of most water will create chloroform- not much because the limit is 80 parts per billion.
But a billion grams of water is only a thousand tons.
London uses 2.6 billion litres a day so, at 80 parts per billion that's something like 200 litres of chloroform per day they could produce and flush.
Having said all that, if you really need to get rid of waste chloroform (rather than recycle it) the best bet is probably to pour it on some concrete
somewhere uninhabited and let the UV and oxygen in the air destroy it.
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Reboot
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While your position isn't without it's logic, it's clearly in violation of the pollution laws (at least on my side of the pond), and for it to work
you have to assume that there aren't plenty of other people giving themselves the same excuse.
Science matters, but let's not forget the political/public perception aspects. For me, there are some red-line issues on things you can dump down
the drain. Mercury is one. Chlorinated solvents is another. The regulators (and the public) will not accept your 'acceptable level of ultimate
dilution' argument as a good reason for not having taken care of your waste stream like a professional in the first place.
If nothing else, the government has had to spend a lot of money on spills/dumping that didn't reach hazardous concentrations because the mere fact
that there was a release requires followup and monitoring.
'No single raindrop thinks they're responsible for the flood.' And perhaps they aren't. But each raindrop can add up.
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BromicAcid
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I've posted about it before, Fenton's Regent makes quick work of chlorinated solvents.
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aga
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The OP never mentioned 'chlorinated waste', just "organic waste (both solid and liquid)".
In any event, surely a Home Chemist would not produce a kilo of anything.
So, the problem is how to dispose of very small quantities of unwanted Organic materials, possibly unknown species.
Bleach+Time are your friends.
Where Bleach fails, Fire works well.
Volatile OC material will simply evaporate away, e.g. DCM.
If your intent is to make metallo-organic species, i have to suggest that you do Not.
Failure to understand them even as far as their Disposal is concerned is cause enough to raise several alarms.
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woelen
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I'll give a few concrete compounds and what I do with their waste. That may help you decide what to do with your waste in many cases.
- mineral acids (HNO3, H2SO3, H2SO4, HCl, H3PO4, H3PO3) all can go down the drain, even in somewhat larger quantities. They are corrosive, but not
really toxic in the long run. Dilute them with a lot of water and flush them down the drain.
- formic acid, acetic acid, propionic acid, butyric acid and many more unsaturated acids I also flush away with a lot of water.
- common water-soluble solvents like acetone, ether, ethanol, i-propanol, n-propanol, methanol I allow to evaporate in contact with air for some time
(also if they are mixed with water) and then i flush them down the drain with a lot of water.
- non water-soluble solvents, like ligroin, hexane, heptane, octane I allow to evaporate in contact with air, outside. I sometimes burn them.
- I also allow chlorinated solvents (CH2Cl2, CHCl3, CHCl=CCl2, CCl2=CCl2, CCl4) to evaporate in contact with air, outside. I use these compounds only
very sparingly. In the last year my total waste of these summed up is less than 100 ml. I try to avoid using these as much as possible. Many
experiments also can be done quite well in hexane or low-boiling ligroin. If I really need something more inert, then I prefer using CH2Cl2, it is the
least toxic and easiest to obtain chlorinated solvent.
- I do not do any experiments with organic mercury compounds, or any other organic metal compounds (other than simple salts like acetates, formiates
and so on).
- Sugars, plant-derived acids (e.g. malic acid, fumaric acid, malonic acid, citric acid, oxalic acid) and acids like lactic acid, glycolic acid, also
go down the drain with a lot of water.
Most troublesome to me are aromatic compounds. Benzoic acid and benzoates can go down the drain with a lot of water, but benzene, toluene and xylene
certainly cannot. These, I collect and if there is not too much water involved, I pour them on a paper tissue and burn them outside (gives very sooty
fire!!). Otherwise I store them in a glass bottle and bring this to a municipal waste processing facility, telling them that it is solvent waste from
degreasing things.
I also keep phenol as organic waste. It dissolves in water, I also bring that to a waste processing facility and make up a story about
cleaning/disinfecting things. I never had trouble bringing it away. Just assure you don't have much waste. A liter-bottle always will be accepted if
you have the right story.
Metallic waste (e.g. heavy metals) I put in a separate container and bring that away and tell that it is photography (darkroom) waste. I label the
bottle with something like "heavy metals in solution".
One particular type of waste, I process, before disposing of. That is hexavalent chromium waste, which I sometimes use for oxidation purposes. I
always treat such waste with acid (if not already present) and sodium sulfite (or bisulfite), until the liquid is purely green with a bluish hue. In
this way all hexavalent chromium is converted to trivalent chromium, which is only marginally toxic. A few grams of trivalent chromium can go down the
drain with a lot of water. Larger amounts can be precipitated with ammonia and the filtered precipitate can be put in the normal household waste.
I work on a mini-scale in my experiments. I use test tubes whenever possible and work in ml-quantities. In that way I do not produce much waste. As
you can see above, much waste can go down the drain. Many other (non home-chemistry) uses produce similar waste or even add chemicals deliberately to
the waste stream (e.g. drain openers, based on H2SO4, but also many toilet cleaners, based on HCl, or formic acid).
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unionised
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| Quote: Originally posted by Reboot |
For me, there are some red-line issues on things you can dump down the drain. Mercury is one. Chlorinated solvents is another. The
regulators (and the public) will not accept your 'acceptable level of ultimate dilution' argument as a good reason for not having taken care of your
waste stream like a professional in the first place.
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Well, the last time I checked (probably 10 years ago) the law was simple. Our lab's waste disposal permits forbade putting chlorinated solvents down
the drain.
That sounds perfectly sensible.
Until you remember that there are chlorinated solvents in the incoming water.
So simply running the tap was breaking the law.
And that's why sensible governments actually set limits rather than saying "zero!".
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VSEPR_VOID
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| Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid | | Quote: Originally posted by Reboot | | Please do NOT dump chlorinated solvents down the drain; they're a serious environmental problem. If you have a liter of chloroform, recover it.
Save halogenated solvents, redistill and reuse. |
Totally agree. People in their back yards are not the only source of chloroform, it is regulated by the clean water act. If your local water
treatment facility starts spiking for halogenated compounds they can track down the source....
[Edited on 5/6/2018 by BromicAcid] |
Now that would be fun to have to explain to the local authorities, "why yes officer, I thought it wa better than burning my lab waste".
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SWIM
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He don't know me very well, do he?
Heh Heh Heh...
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CaptainMolo
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I'll throw my two cents in, the local recycling center near my home accepts chemical waste at a very reasonable fee. Something like 10 bucks to drop
off whatever you have, to my knowledge they will take whatever you have and figure out what to do with it for you. It might be worth looking into if
there are similar facilities near your area.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. - Albert Einstein
Find me on BitChute, YouTube and MINDS as "Full
Modern Alchemist" |
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User13579
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I think it's reasonable to consider what sort of chemicals non chemists are throwing into household waste routinely. There are paint strippers based
on DCM, toluene, xylene, white spirit, paint itself, bleach and kitchen cleaners, methylated spirits, pesticides and insecticides etc. People just use
these, put them in a bottle or a bag, then throw them in the household waste with no thought of seeking professional disposal. Is someone throwing
away dirty paint thinner or creosote any better than someone throwing away the toluene that they used as a solvent? In reality, maybe your solvent is
less contaminated than an artist who used heavy metal pigments and washes their brushes in xylene. At a pharmaceutical company I used to work at, they
disposed of chloroform by leaving it overnight in a fume hood in an open beaker! It seems to me that some people are going to greater lengths than
industry does. The best solution is not to produce much waste to start with, by working on a small scale, then if you have one litre of organic
solvents similar to over the counter paint thinners then you can decide how best to deal with it. But as I say, most laymen would throw similar things
in the bin without a second thought, while chemists are worrying about how xylene will contaminate the environment. What's more, the treatment at a
waste processing facility is often to dispose of it by buring it in an incinerator. If you could recover and reuse your own solvents then obviously
that would be better, but personally I wouldn't feel too bad about throwing toluene and methylated spirits in the bin so long as it wasn't
contaminated with anything notably poisonous such as mercury. But even then, energy saving lightbulbs contain mercury and people throw them into the
household waste too.
[Edited on 9-5-2018 by User13579]
[Edited on 9-5-2018 by User13579]
[Edited on 9-5-2018 by User13579]
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CobaltChloride
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Although that is true, people should start changing this behavior. Out of all people, chemists should be the ones to start this positive change
because they are the ones which understand the environmental harm of these chemicals.
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User13579
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That's true, but chemists also understand that they come from the environment in the first place.  I see your point, but sometimes it's difficult to find a waste processing facility that will accept a small amount of
chloroform, for instance. And as I said, in the pharmaceutical industry I've seen litres evaporated overnight via the fume hood, and probably straight
out into the environment.
[Edited on 9-5-2018 by User13579]
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fent101
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lab waste
flinn scientific has a great catalog that covers the basics of storage and
waste I talked them in to sending me a catalog.
also scribd is a great source for books and documents this is on recommended document https://www.scribd.com/document/1727033/SAFE-LAB-School-Chem...
You get a free 30 day trial and can dl as much as you want. USE IT
There are more of us "armature chemists" than there are pro's. We can drown them in our urine. lol
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zed
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Ummm. Incineration.
That is how the U.S. Military disposes of nasty bits, like Sarin, etc....
And within limits, we might resort to the same means.
This recent video, explains it fairly precisely. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLUGsn-NOis
But, of course, the original looks pretty good too. And, it includes subtitles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaHEusBG20c
[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]
[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]
[Edited on 10-5-2018 by zed]
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morganbw
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Thanks for the links. The song made me smile.
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