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LearnedAmateur
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Maybe one synthesis idea could be to create a chemical rainbow? Whoever can make the required complex ions/transition metal salts/azo dyes/etc. for
the seven rainbow colours? Although again it wouldn’t be fair if people can easily buy certain reagents and others cannot, so it’s probably a
crappy idea on the whole.
In chemistry, sometimes the solution is the problem.
It’s been a while, but I’m not dead! Updated 7/1/2020. Shout out to Aga, we got along well.
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Amos
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The challenges I like the best are those that establish something that helps the amateur community. The OTC tempo and nitric acid ones were designed
to that effect. Oxalyl chloride might be something I take a stab at someday (I have some ideas), but maybe is a little tough. I'd like to see someone
devise a high yield procedure for getting tetrahydrofuran out of a consumer product. Or maybe demonstrate a way to skirt high-temperature or pressure
requirements of a well-known reaction. Depends on what we need most, I guess.
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VSEPR_VOID
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Maybe even create challenges designed around limiting chemicals and equipment. For example, not saying this idea is original, but who can make the
best mineral acid with a ten dollar budget and household equipment.
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aga
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Think of something, put up the Prize/Money and post the Challenge.
It's as simple as that.
The Nitric thing i had to close for three reasons:
1. Nobody got close to a solution, despite lots and lots of time (alternate nitrate sources were also boring)
2. I had less money lying around than when i started that "Challenge"
3. Turned out that the solution had already been posted on SM years ago.
It is very important to quickly pay out if anyone actually solves a Challenge that you post.
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violet sin
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There could be store specific challenges, such as home depot, dollar store, Wall-Mart or even hippy health food stores... It would be more region
specific for some of those, but you get the idea. It narrows down some of the players, but also opens the field in some ways.
Dollar stores have some really random crap in there, I'm sure something could be built from their stock, I know I've use them manny a time for sources
of household items my wife wouldn't kill me for using. Could call that one "the marriage saver challenge" lol. It would basically allow one to
have a very discrete bill.
Just one of many mediocre, after work ideas. Discard if you will, but I thought It might be a novel idea.
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RogueRose
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I support this and maybe we could take some kind of pool or collection where we donate $ and then give it away or split it. Also another idea is to
give lab gear or chems away. I've accumulated some extra pieces that IDK if I will use.
I'm thinking a good contest would be an easy way of making Chlorates without expensive anodes/cathodes.. It could be broken up into a few parts,
making/finding power supply, power control, electrodes & process.
I think electrolysis in general has a lot of misinformation on this site and others where things are stated to work and they seem to most certainly
not.
Also, I think it would be a great idea to always have some kind of competition going on in the forum. This would be very beneficial to inspiring
people to have a direction in which to focus even if it is just reading the threads. If it is a matter of cost, I'd be happy to donate to the
competitions if there were good effort put into it as I'd prefer to read interesting experiments (successes or failures) than watch a bad movie at the
theatre (for $20 for ticket and food) - meaning, I'd pay for the contest instead.
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Vosoryx
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I'm working on some challenge ideas right now, some for the "Weekend Challenge" idea and some for regular challenges.
One thing that I want to be conscious of is making it useful. Challenges for the sake of challenges are fun to be sure, but I want to be thinking
about how the products might help us amateurs. Meta's TLC challenge is a good example of this - it'll be useful. However, i'm concerned that, just
like the oxalyl chloride, it will fade into nothingness after a while. Currently, I have no way of figuring this problem out. I guess the solution
would be to make the challenge not to hard that people give up but not so easy that it serves no real use or research to amateur chemistry.
I'm also, as I imagine is the case for a lot of others, not exactly made of money. What money I do make, I try to save for university. I would be glad
to spend a bit as a prize for someone discovering a pathway to a useful chem. But spending it as prize money for short challenges that I've already
done, as much as i'd like to, might bankrupt me.
The larger competitions seem to fail more often than not, sadly. I don't have any way around this - anyone?
"Open your mind son, before someone opens it for you." - Dr. Walter Bishop
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j_sum1
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Awesome, V.
Remember that skill-building is also useful. As is something dramatic or illustrative that attracts people to chemistry and helps them understand.
At the close of the copper carnival was the question of "shall we do this next year?" followed by resounding approval. It didn't happen but there is
no reason not to do a simple repeat of that one.
As for prizes -- they are nice. But they don't need to be big. And current trends are for other members to voluntarily chip in as well. Everyone
breaks beakers and needs new ones. No one is going to turn down a good chem text, a few grams of Hg in some tilt switches or some vanadium pentoxide.
A nice inexpensive prize is easy to arrange.
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Metacelsus
International Hazard
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Quote: Originally posted by Vosoryx  | Meta's TLC challenge is a good example of this - it'll be useful. However, i'm concerned that, just like the oxalyl chloride, it will fade into
nothingness after a while. Currently, I have no way of figuring this problem out. I guess the solution would be to make the challenge not to hard that
people give up but not so easy that it serves no real use or research to amateur chemistry.
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I've also been concerned about this. If I see a lack of interest in the main TLC challenge after a few weeks, then I will probably add some additional
categories related to making TLC plates, which should be easier to complete.
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JJay
International Hazard
Posts: 3440
Registered: 15-10-2015
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The oxalyl chloride challenge didn't actually fade into nothingness; it was ended when the deadline was reached. I might start it up again after a
while, but I'd want to be assured of receiving at least one entry (there is a patent route that looks like it might work).
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Melgar
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Ooh, I have an idea. See who can build the most interesting continuous-production catalytic system for producing a chemical that's difficult to
obtain from one that's easy to obtain. Like say, air oxidation of naphthalene to phthalic anhydride or something along those lines.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
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diddi
National Hazard
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Location: Victoria, Australia
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the chemical art idea appeals to me as being something highly open ended and hence subject to many interpretations. i think that the easier it is to
bend a challenge to ones own skill set, the more people are likely to engage. the less rules the better imo. some constraints (obviously) but not too
prescriptive. perhaps categories (eg 3d sculptural and 2d) or whatever. just thinking out loud 
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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nitro-genes
International Hazard
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Production of synthetic precious opal seems like an interesting challenge. Basically, opal consists of nearly uniform (same size) silica spheres,
arranged in an orderly fashion forming a diffraction grating (photonic crystal), resulting in a stunning play of colour when held in the light.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55IrVwFUrrY
Touches upon chemical and physical aspects of nano materials, a hot topic at the moment with lots of applications. It might be possible to use very
cheap and mostly non-toxic chemicals and virtually no glassware, so amateur friendly. I've gathered some literature and ideas on the subject already,
if there is any interest here I'll post them here.
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DavidJR
National Hazard
Posts: 908
Registered: 1-1-2018
Location: Scotland
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| Quote: Originally posted by Melgar | | Ooh, I have an idea. See who can build the most interesting continuous-production catalytic system for producing a chemical that's difficult to
obtain from one that's easy to obtain. Like say, air oxidation of naphthalene to phthalic anhydride or something along those lines.
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How about hydrogen peroxide via the anthraquinone process?
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VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
Posts: 719
Registered: 1-9-2017
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Mood: Fullerenes
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| Quote: Originally posted by DavidJR | | Quote: Originally posted by Melgar | | Ooh, I have an idea. See who can build the most interesting continuous-production catalytic system for producing a chemical that's difficult to
obtain from one that's easy to obtain. Like say, air oxidation of naphthalene to phthalic anhydride or something along those lines.
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How about hydrogen peroxide via the anthraquinone process? |
I like that idea. Maybe also the production of nitric acid from air or ammonia. That could benefit the community a great deal!
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symboom
International Hazard
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Nitric acid from ammonia with transition metal salts
Make concentrate hydrogen peroxide
These projects alone would be a great much needed challange
Side note i set a challange for my self to compact the chemicals i need
Extraction with p-cymene
http://www.prepchem.com/synthesis-of-hydrogen-peroxide/
80-90% hydrogen peroxide obtained by mixing 30% hydrogen peroxide solution with twice its amount of p-cymene.
Sulfuric acid absorbed on silica solidified sulfuric acid
AlCl3 for making hydrochloric acid
Nitrogen dioxide absobed on solid catalysis for nitric acid
Calcium chloride for storing ammonia gas
And
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VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
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Make organic compounds from inorganic starting materials. The person with the most useful, complex, or interesting results wins
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j_sum1
Administrator
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There are some good ideas being floated, and judging by some U2Us I have seen, there are more ideas being considered.
We have two competitions running right now - both related to equipment design and construction.
I think there is space for a practical chemistry challenge of some kind. Does anyone want to actually run with one of these?
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VSEPR_VOID
National Hazard
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Links to the existing challenges please?
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j_sum1
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Both stickied -- I assumed links were unnecessary.
But here ya go:
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=82...
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=82...
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fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
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| Quote: Originally posted by LearnedAmateur | | Maybe one synthesis idea could be to create a chemical rainbow? Whoever can make the required complex ions/transition metal salts/azo dyes/etc. for
the seven rainbow colours? Although again it wouldn’t be fair if people can easily buy certain reagents and others cannot, so it’s probably a
crappy idea on the whole. |
Wonderful idea! I think that could be a great challenge if only allowed to use otc chemicals and/or extractions using otc solvents.
But should mixing 2 colours to make another colour be allowed?
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fusso
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Another idea:
Crystal growing challenge?
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JJay
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That is one challenge I would have no chance of winning. It's almost mind-numbingly easy to purify substances by recrystallization, but when it comes
to growing crystals, I am just awful at it. I think a lot of people would like that idea, though. What would be the aim of the challenge?
Oh and for the record, no proposal of a Total Synthesis of Lysergic Aldehyde challenge was actually made, and it was mentioned only in jest.
While it is actually possible to carry out such a synthesis, it would be extraordinarily difficult in an amateur lab, and I think it is better for a
challenge to try to achieve more useful results with broader appeal.
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Vosoryx
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| Quote: Originally posted by JJay |
Oh and for the record, no proposal of a Total Synthesis of Lysergic Aldehyde challenge was actually made, and it was mentioned only in jest.
While it is actually possible to carry out such a synthesis, it would be extraordinarily difficult in an amateur lab, and I think it is better for a
challenge to try to achieve more useful results with broader appeal. |
Yeah, and not to mention that any self respecting cop would nail you on trying to make LSD with such a similar compound.
So, it would be all the risk of cooking acid without the possible reward of having any.
"Open your mind son, before someone opens it for you." - Dr. Walter Bishop
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JJay
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Hah. It's not illegal and not on any lists of suspicious chemicals. Anyone who bothers doing the full synthesis is clearly interested in more than
cookery; it would basically be the amateur version of total synthesis of lysergic acid (which is illegal). There is no law against making lysergic
aldehyde as long as it's not intended to be used as a drug. Furthermore, it has no known pharmacological effects.
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