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PhenethylamineMachine
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My 10th grade chemistry class.
Like I said, this concept came from a science television program, in class we watched the program, divided into groups, then each group had to produce
a model alter that would catch fire with water added using only calcium oxide, sulphur, and naphtha. We did everything Elijah did, except for
slaughter a cow on the alter, and sure enough it worked, however, that ditch dug around the alter is crucial.
...any way, I am sure that my answer is still not acceptable for you, so I very quickly skimmed the Wikipedia page for calcium oxide where it states
that a reaction with H20 Will produce temperatures of around 300°C.
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Drops of water are added to pieces of quicklime. After a while, a pronounced exothermic reaction occurs ('slaking of lime'). The temperature can
reach up to some 300 °С. -Wikipedia
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PhenethylamineMachine
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Quote: Originally posted by Melgar  | I think that Egyptians probably used those lamps like the genie was trapped in in the movie Aladdin.
Problem solved. |
Oil lamps?
Possible. But it's really beside the point.
The person I was debating explained the situation as follows: there were wall carvings found deep in a temple, they were found in places where light
would not have been available, even if using mirrors reflecting the sun. It was also argued that there was no evidence that fire was used such as
residue on the walls or proper ventilation.
So I was thinking, if the Egyptians built the pyramids I am sure they could have figured out how to make "pee lamps". Maybe hennig Brand was simply
making a re-discovery.
About the "dendera bulb" you would not expect it to be an exact representation, there would have been artistic interpretations as well as the possible
need to keep the methods by which they were produced a secret. We still don't know much about "Greek fire" because the information was
compartmentalized between the soldiers deploying it...
...this goes along with what I was saying before, we do not know how many ancients made discoveries in chemistry and decided to keep them secret.
Any way, its a very long shot, but I still see "egyptian phosphorus lamps" as being a viable option.
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The chemical reaction Brand stumbled on was as follows. Urine contains phosphates PO43−, as sodium phosphate (i.e. with Na+), and
various carbon-based organics. Under strong heat the oxygens from the phosphate react with carbon to produce carbon monoxide CO,
leaving elemental phosphorus P, which comes off as a gas. Phosphorus condenses to a liquid below about 280°C and then solidifies (to the white
phosphorus allotrope) below about 44°C (depending on purity). This same essential reaction is still used today (but with mined
phosphate ores, coke for carbon, and electric furnaces).
-Wikipedia |
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Sulaiman
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| Quote: Originally posted by PhenethylamineMachine |
The person I was debating explained the situation as follows: there were wall carvings found deep in a temple, they were found in places where light
would not have been available, even if using mirrors reflecting the sun. It was also argued that there was no evidence that fire was used such as
residue on the walls or proper ventilation.
...
this goes along with what I was saying before, we do not know how many ancients made discoveries in chemistry and decided to keep them secret.
Any way, its a very long shot, but I still see "egyptian phosphorus lamps" as being a viable opti
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I prefer simpler arguments;
. AFAIK pyramids were for a single burial ceremony then sealed, so only short-term lighting was required
. If a body can get from outside to inside then a relay of mirrors will work
. Much of the work would have been done during construction - in daylight
CAUTION : Hobby Chemist, not Professional or even Amateur
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BromicAcid
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@PhenethylamineMachine-
Thank you for providing at least some sort of reference for your claim. If you look at my first quote you will see that I quoted you as saying the
reaction reached 'temperatures of over 600°F' but when I asked for a source you responded:
| Quote: | Mea culpa, the 600°c was related to a thermal decomposition reaction related to the substance, thank you for catching that.
The heat produced by the exothermic reaction generated by the calcium oxide and water should be sufficient though, reaching 300°c or more
|
But you hadn't said 600°C in the OP, you had said 600°F. You then said it would reach 300°C. With 300°C being 572°F you were, it appeared,
talking in circles since the numbers were fairly close. Hence I pressed for a source again as 300°C is an impressive figure (additionally I had
searched for heat of hydrolysis of calcium oxide and found a literature paper on different types of concrete with neat Portland Cement having +100°C
having the highest heat of hydrolysis of the listed components).
Apologies if I made you feel defensive, I was honestly just curious.
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PhenethylamineMachine
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| Quote: Originally posted by BromicAcid | @PhenethylamineMachine-
Thank you for providing at least some sort of reference for your claim. If you look at my first quote you will see that I quoted you as saying the
reaction reached 'temperatures of over 600°F' but when I asked for a source you responded:
| Quote: | Mea culpa, the 600°c was related to a thermal decomposition reaction related to the substance, thank you for catching that.
The heat produced by the exothermic reaction generated by the calcium oxide and water should be sufficient though, reaching 300°c or more
|
But you hadn't said 600°C in the OP, you had said 600°F. You then said it would reach 300°C. With 300°C being 572°F you were, it appeared,
talking in circles since the numbers were fairly close. Hence I pressed for a source again as 300°C is an impressive figure (additionally I had
searched for heat of hydrolysis of calcium oxide and found a literature paper on different types of concrete with neat Portland Cement having +100°C
having the highest heat of hydrolysis of the listed components).
Apologies if I made you feel defensive, I was honestly just curious. |
No, the 600°c was related to a decomposition reaction involving calcium oxide*, the Fahrenheit was the typo, the 600° was intentional but incorrect.
So Wikipedia does not count as a reference?
| Quote: |
A demonstration of slaking of quicklime as a strongly exothermic reaction. Drops of water are added to pieces of quicklime. After a while, a
pronounced exothermic reaction occurs ('slaking of lime'). The temperature can reach up to some 300 °С. -Wikipedia
|
Here is another one:
http://www.maria-online.com/health/article.php?lg=en&q=C...
* | Quote: |
Calcium oxide, chemical compound, CaO, a colorless, cubic crystalline or white amorphous substance. It is also called lime, quicklime, or caustic
lime, but commercial lime often contains impurities, e.g., silica, iron, alumina, and magnesia. It is prepared by heating calcium carbonate (e.g.,
limestone) in a special lime kiln to about 500°C to 600°C, decomposing it into the oxide and carbon dioxide.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/science-and-technology/chemistr...
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Like I said, this was all based on a reaction preformed in high school, so I apologize if my memory is not at its best.
I don't understand how I was "talking in circles" everything has been consistent aside from the single numerical error.
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PhenethylamineMachine
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman | | Quote: Originally posted by PhenethylamineMachine |
The person I was debating explained the situation as follows: there were wall carvings found deep in a temple, they were found in places where light
would not have been available, even if using mirrors reflecting the sun. It was also argued that there was no evidence that fire was used such as
residue on the walls or proper ventilation.
...
this goes along with what I was saying before, we do not know how many ancients made discoveries in chemistry and decided to keep them secret.
Any way, its a very long shot, but I still see "egyptian phosphorus lamps" as being a viable opti
|
I prefer simpler arguments;
. AFAIK pyramids were for a single burial ceremony then sealed, so only short-term lighting was required
. If a body can get from outside to inside then a relay of mirrors will work
. Much of the work would have been done during construction - in daylight |
I was assuming that the chemistry would be the focus, not the premise behind the hypothetical...
Any way:
| Quote: |
. AFAIK pyramids were for a single burial ceremony then sealed, so only short-term lighting was required
|
Not all large temples were pyramids, and regardless if the temples were being sealed the artists would still need light to place detailed carvings on
the wall.
| Quote: |
. If a body can get from outside to inside then a relay of mirrors will work
|
Light always travels in straight lines, and positioning mirrors along the various curves and turns of the corridors and passage ways going thousands
of feet down into the pyramids would have been easier said than done, plus the mirrors would have had to have been moved in accordance with the
movement of the sun.
Honestly though, for the purpose of the conversation it is completely besides the point, the premise was no fire or mirrors reflecting sun, how could
they have done it?
| Quote: |
. Much of the work would have been done during construction - in daylight
|
Have you ever seen someone go into a pyramid? Its dark, they need flashlights. The art was added after the temples were completed, so logically the
artists would have had this same issue.
so it doesn't matter if the Sun is outside, when you are surrounded by stone on all sides for thousands of feet light is not going to be able to reach
you. Immagine being in a concrete building without Windows.
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