Aemornion
Harmless
Posts: 6
Registered: 12-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Osmium tetroxide decomposition
Hello all,
I have been gifted a rather impressive stash of chemicals.
(Still itemizing them I'll be selling some eventually)
One of the nastier ones happens to be osmium tetroxide.
I'll have to xray the one can to see what's inside, the other can has 3 vials each with an unknown quantity.
Thankfully its stored appropriately. Looks to be in good shape, nothing degrading or black.
I added a few more layers and another can just to be safe.
Needless to say, I don't really want the tetroxide hanging around. That is pushing the limits on what I'm willing to store for an extended period of
time.
Corn oil is the recomended way to neutralize the tetroxide, for Those who don't know.
But I also don't want to get rid of the osmium metal.
Anyone have a good way to reduce it back to the metal.
I'd love to put the metal in an ampoule under argon.
I have access to a glovebox/hood, safety is no stranger to me.
Just looking for some suggestions on the process, not a lecture on safety.
Note: if someone wants it.. I'm more than happy to trade it for an equivilant quantity of osmium metal.
|
|
|
Melgar
Anti-Spam Agent
Posts: 2004
Registered: 23-2-2010
Location: Connecticut
Member Is Offline
Mood: Estrified
|
|
Corn oil will reduce the tetroxide to the metal, and you'll then be able to see it as a black powder that will settle out. Wash it with something
really neutral like hexane.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
|
|
|
symboom
International Hazard
Posts: 1143
Registered: 11-11-2010
Location: Wrongplanet
Member Is Offline
Mood: Doing science while it is still legal since 2010
|
|
Reducing osmium should be possible with hydrogen
OsO4 is very soluble in tert-butyl alcohol. In solution, it is readily reduced by hydrogen to osmium metal. The suspended osmium metal can be used to
catalyze hydrogenation of a wide variety of organic chemicals containing double or triple bonds.
OsO4 + 4 H2 → Os + 4 H2O
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6333
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
You should have no problem selling Os powder once you have cleaned it.
Actually, you probably won't have any difficulty selling OsO4 in the containers it is currently in. Shipping it legally might be another matter,
however.
|
|
|
AJKOER
Radically Dubious
Posts: 3026
Registered: 7-5-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
OK, not a safety lecture, more like a sanity test, to quote from Atomistry.com on OsO4:
"The tetroxide readily sublimes on heating. When fused it boils at 100° C., yielding a vapour of density 8.89 (air = 1) or 128 (H = 1), the
theoretical requirement for the formula OsO4 being 127.5 (H = 1). The vapour is very penetrating and exceedingly poisonous, producing temporary
blindness and other alarming symptoms. If inhaled, the best antidote appears to be hydrogen sulphide, which neutralises the action of the tetroxide on
the respiratory organs."
Sounds like a pretty scary compound, I would not keep it around. Now with respect to the metal, to quote again:
"Finely divided metallic osmium slowly oxidises in air to the tetroxide, and more rapidly on heating in air or, better, in oxygen. At high
temperatures the compact metal yields vapours of the volatile tetroxide, and this affords a useful means of quantitatively separating osmium from its
iridium alloy."
So, the metal itself appears to be a rapid avenue back to OsO4.
Source link: http://osmium.atomistry.com/osmium_tetroxide.html
[Edited on 12-9-2017 by AJKOER]
|
|
|
Aemornion
Harmless
Posts: 6
Registered: 12-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Melgar,
I was under the impression that the corn oil generated Os, OsO2 and, OsO. All less problematic than OsO4 of course.
Are you certain that only Os is precipitated?
Symboom,
As far as the hydrogen reduction goes, as far as apparatus goes, would one simply pass finely bubbled hydrogen through a column of the tert-butanol?
ALJKOER,
You are correct, especially if it's powered.
Which is why I plan to be working in a fume hood, and then an argon inert glove box. I don't enjoy taking risks.
End game would be to seal the powder in an ampoule under argon. I doubt I'll ever be able to solidify it.
Yea, the house the chem stash came from is crazy.,
The gentleman who passed away had HF in his kitchen along with a large quantity of mercury.,
And the OsO4 was supposedly in box under a bunch of other heavy stuff in his living room.
Think the horders tv show... But with piles of science... Everywhere...
Crazy...
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6333
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: At home
Member Is Offline
Mood: Most of the ducks are in a row
|
|
Score!!
|
|
|
woelen
Super Administrator
Posts: 8027
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: interested
|
|
The dangers of OsO4 are somewhat exaggerated over here. The way it is stored, it is quite safe, just assuree that the container(s) cannot break, but
wrapping in paper tissue and keeping a second bigger container around it.
I assume you just have a few grams and then the whole storage issue nearly is non-existent, when the above is taken into account.
Another way to keep it around safely is to break the well-cleaned ampoules under water with a clean glass rod or stainless stell rod. Once the ampoule
is broken, you can dissolve the OsO4 and obtain a solution of a few tenths of percents concentration, which can be used for interesting experiments.
Such a solution is stable and does not give off any OsO4 vapour. It can be stored in a glass bottle with a plastic screw cap.
The vapor indeed is dangerous, but when you do as described above, there is no risk of getting a large amount of vapor in your house.
I would not destroy it. You even could sell it to someone and get a nice amount of money for it. It is worth at least a few tens of dollars per gram.
|
|
|
Melgar
Anti-Spam Agent
Posts: 2004
Registered: 23-2-2010
Location: Connecticut
Member Is Offline
Mood: Estrified
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Aemornion  | Melgar,
I was under the impression that the corn oil generated Os, OsO2 and, OsO. All less problematic than OsO4 of course.
Are you certain that only Os is precipitated? |
I thought that OsO2 and OsO were strong enough oxidizers to be reduced by corn oil, but I guess I'm not 100% sure.
The first step in the process of learning something is admitting that you don't know it already.
I'm givin' the spam shields max power at full warp, but they just dinna have the power! We're gonna have to evacuate to new forum software!
|
|
|
Aemornion
Harmless
Posts: 6
Registered: 12-9-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Like I said,
If someone here wanted it, id be more than happy to trade it away...
I think if I were to simply list it on eBay it would be taken down, due to the potential of someone using it for ill-intent.
Not to mention I'm unsure how many hoops one would have to jump through to ship it. Probably just specify pickup only.
Trading it would be better, someone gets to use the material rather than me destroying it, and I get the slightly more mundane osmium metal.
Their are at least 3 1g vials in the one container.
The only reason I know what's inside it is because the can is not a positive closure can. just two half's what slide together. When I first picked it
up the top slid off and I observed its contents, it has since been secured shut.
The 2nd container is a sealed paint can, slowly rocking it leads me to believe another quantity of 2 or more 1g vials. I'll know more once I X-ray it.
(my buddy has a machine). I don't believe any vials to be broken.
You have to look at it from my perspective, I have a 1 year old.
True my chemicals are locked away in a cabinet, within the garage and the odds of exposure are low. But is the risk really worth it, to have one
hanging around that such a small amount can become an extremely harmful vapor. Not Particularly.
It will be a while before I can make it up to the lab, so plenty of time for someone to decide if they want it or not.
|
|
|
Fleaker
International Hazard
Posts: 1252
Registered: 19-6-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: nucleophilic
|
|
My advice is look up the book value of it in Alfa or through a supplier, and then donate it to your local university and write it off on your taxes.
You will maximize value in that fashion by saving the university money on buying/shipping it and assure it goes to a good, responsible home.
Outside of someone doing certain organic syntheses, it's basically used for biological sample prep. That's what 95% of it is sold for in this day.
Otherwise, I can pay the shipping on it and a modest sum and take it off your hands--I don't have much real need for it, but do have to make it before
I make ammonium chloroosmate into Os sponge. All refined osmium goes through the distillation process, which is remarkably simple and effective, but
of course dangerous without the proper setup.
As for the Os powder thing...VERY fine powders stink. Well sintered powder (calcined in Ar/H2 for about 10 h at 1000 C) gives off no odor and is just
nice blue sand. Beautiful metal.
Neither flask nor beaker.
"Kid, you don't even know just what you don't know. "
--The Dark Lord Sauron
|
|
|
chornedsnorkack
National Hazard
Posts: 564
Registered: 16-2-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Are there any Os compounds which do not spontaneously oxidize to tetroxide?
|
|
|
chornedsnorkack
National Hazard
Posts: 564
Registered: 16-2-2012
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
How stable in air are perosmates? Osmates?
|
|
|
Rhodanide
Hazard to Others
Posts: 348
Registered: 23-7-2015
Location: Ｔｈｅ ８０ｓ
Member Is Offline
Mood: That retro aesthetic
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER | OK, not a safety lecture, more like a sanity test, to quote from Atomistry.com on OsO4:
"The tetroxide readily sublimes on heating. When fused it boils at 100° C., yielding a vapour of density 8.89 (air = 1) or 128 (H = 1), the
theoretical requirement for the formula OsO4 being 127.5 (H = 1). The vapour is very penetrating and exceedingly poisonous, producing temporary
blindness and other alarming symptoms. If inhaled, the best antidote appears to be hydrogen sulphide, which neutralises the action of the tetroxide on
the respiratory organs."
Sounds like a pretty scary compound, I would not keep it around. Now with respect to the metal, to quote again:
"Finely divided metallic osmium slowly oxidises in air to the tetroxide, and more rapidly on heating in air or, better, in oxygen. At high
temperatures the compact metal yields vapours of the volatile tetroxide, and this affords a useful means of quantitatively separating osmium from its
iridium alloy."
So, the metal itself appears to be a rapid avenue back to OsO4.
Source link: http://osmium.atomistry.com/osmium_tetroxide.html
[Edited on 12-9-2017 by AJKOER] |
Unbelievable.
The antidote for something quite deadly, turns out to be something which is also quite deadly. Who'da thunk.
|
|
|
markx
National Hazard
Posts: 646
Registered: 7-8-2003
Location: Northern kingdom
Member Is Offline
Mood: Very Jolly
|
|
I have an ancient osmium tetroxide sample of 1g in my exotic stuff section:
Evil substance....I remember that I knew nothing of the dangers when I acquired this ampule.
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
