Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  2
Author: Subject: H2O2 and Ca(OCl)2
Esplosivo
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 491
Registered: 7-2-2004
Location: Mediterranean
Member Is Offline

Mood: Quantized

[*] posted on 22-4-2005 at 07:46


Being a hypochlorite I suppose that on heating >70 deg C it would disproportionate in the same way sodium hypochlorite does. The passage of chlorine through hot, conc. calcium hydroxide was at one time the method of production of chlorates, the calcium chlorate produced being reacted with KCl and the KClO3 crystallized.

Edit: I don't suppose this had anything to do with the thread except to show that calcium hypochlorite cannot be decomposed by heat, although I do think that water is required for a disproprotionation to occur.

May I suggest bubbling carbon dioxide through a conc. solution of calcium hypochlorite in an isolated site. This would produce carbonic acid which would probably react with the hypochlorite to give chlorine (you're in the desert, so the small quantity given off over a long time should not be a problem) and calcium carbonate, which is surely not a problem to dispose of. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.

[Edited on 22-4-2005 by Esplosivo]




Theory guides, experiment decides.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
sparkgap
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1234
Registered: 16-1-2005
Location: not where you think
Member Is Offline

Mood: chaotropic

[*] posted on 22-4-2005 at 08:11


Esplosivo, nice suggestion, but methinks he'd have to apply pressure of some sort so that an appreciable concentration of carbonic acid is present. Besides, normal daytime desert temperatures tend to disfavor dissolution of gases into water, but maybe a cooling system of some sort can rectify this, or they can run it in the nighttime, when the temperature is more agreeable.

What is the Henry's law constant for CO<sub>2</sub> anyway?

sparky (^_^)




"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Esplosivo
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 491
Registered: 7-2-2004
Location: Mediterranean
Member Is Offline

Mood: Quantized

[*] posted on 22-4-2005 at 08:25


I am no university chem student (in fact I am more of the biochem/medicine guy - lets see next year), but according to my poorish knowledge of Henry's law constant (which I did not do at school), the inverse of this constant multiplied by the partial pressure of the gas above the solution should give the molar solubility. Now assuming that carbon dioxide gas is at one atmosphere above the solution (Henry's constant being 29.76 atm/(mol/dm3) at 25 deg C) the molar solubiltiy should be about 0.034moles/dm3.

More would dissolve as more of the CO2 reacts with the hypochlorite, since the dissolved conc. of CO2 decreases. I suppose a cooling jacket would be necessary to increase solubility.

IIRC, this fact about carbonic acid decomposing is why the solid calcium hypochlorite smells of chlorine, but I might be mistaken.

[Edited on 22-4-2005 by Esplosivo]




Theory guides, experiment decides.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
neutrino
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: oscillating

[*] posted on 22-4-2005 at 13:07


Actually, the bisulfite would form sodium chloride and <b>calcium</b> sulfate, which would precipitate. Don’t try filtering it out, though, as CaSO<sub>4</sub> forms a gelatinous mass that is almost impossible to filter out in this form.

A wild idea (it probably won’t work, though) goes as follows: add sodium sulfate to your calcium hypochlorite solution. Spread out the resulting gelatinous mass in the sun. The sodium hypochlorite will decompose while drying, leaving sodium chloride and chlorate. I’m not sure how hazardous those are, though.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MadHatter
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1339
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Maine
Member Is Offline

Mood: Enjoying retirement

[*] posted on 24-4-2005 at 23:07
Ca(OCl)2


Sarge, if you're in a desert, I would try baking it in the sun. I don't know how long it
would take but eventually it will decompose into chlorine and calcium oxide. Of
course, I also don't know what environmental regulations you're bound by either.

In a way I envy you. Personally, if I had to dispose of 800 LBS, I'd dissolve it in water,
boil it for 30 minutes, throw away the chloride, and keep the chlorate that's left.
Yes, the hypochlorite, boiled in water will thermally decompose into the chlorate and
chloride. Check Wouter's page about that one.




From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
View user's profile View All Posts By User
sparkgap
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1234
Registered: 16-1-2005
Location: not where you think
Member Is Offline

Mood: chaotropic

[*] posted on 24-4-2005 at 23:19


A little ponderance for our intrepid HazMat manager:

Should you end up converting your hypochlorite to chlorate, you may not want to dispose of this in or near an area with a plant population, since chlorate is a nice total herbicide.:)

sparky (^_^)




"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
frogfot
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 212
Registered: 30-11-2002
Location: Sweden
Member Is Offline

Mood: happy

[*] posted on 16-7-2005 at 06:09


Is there a way to decompose aqueous hypochlorite without changing the pH in solution?

I'm trying to estimate OH- concentration in chlorate cell electrolyte by titration with phenolphtalein as indicator.. but the indicator discolors too fast.. Oh, and heating it event for 0,5 hours doesn't help..

How would for example H2O2 or sodium formeate react with hypochlorite..?
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
verode
Harmless
*




Posts: 32
Registered: 22-3-2005
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 2-8-2005 at 19:31


try with urea CO(NH2)2 + water
or Na2SO3
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sgt HAZMAT
Harmless
*




Posts: 9
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: OEF
Member Is Offline

Mood: Good (For where

[*] posted on 2-8-2005 at 22:20


We are thinking of a unique solution. Keep those ideas flowing!!!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
*****




Posts: 3330
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-8-2005 at 01:48


You're in the army right? Can your kitchen unit donate about 100lbs of sugar to you? :D

Mix the stuff, then call the EOD, tell them you have some unstable old rocket fuel and they'll probably end up blowing it right there in your desert.

You have alot of fun and get an easy disposal :P




One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
neutrino
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: oscillating

[*] posted on 3-8-2005 at 11:21


Urea can react with hypochlorites to form explosive NCl<sub>3</sub>.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
praseodym
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 137
Registered: 25-7-2005
Location: Schwarzschild Radius
Member Is Offline

Mood: crazy

[*] posted on 4-8-2005 at 22:43


Or you can bubble chlorine gas through a solution of ammonium nitrate to get NCl3. NCl3 is exciting as it is very reactive and explosive but storage could be a problem as it is easily decomposed into ammonia and chlorine due to its high unstability (especially when it is pure).
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
neutrino
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1583
Registered: 20-8-2004
Location: USA
Member Is Offline

Mood: oscillating

[*] posted on 5-8-2005 at 04:02


We're trying to <b>avoid</b> anythig dangerous here. Several dozen liters of ultra-sensitive high explosive isn't something you want to have to deal with.:o
View user's profile View All Posts By User
sparkgap
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1234
Registered: 16-1-2005
Location: not where you think
Member Is Offline

Mood: chaotropic

[*] posted on 5-8-2005 at 06:16


praseodym, he's going for a way to safely dispose of hypochlorite... jeez... FCOL, he's a freakin' HazMat Manager!!! :o He'd be in deep shit for trying that stunt of yours...

vulture was taking the damn piss... :P

sparky (~_~)




"What's UTFSE? I keep hearing about it, but I can't be arsed to search for the answer..."
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  2

  Go To Top