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Brain&Force
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Samarium is sending me insane!
I received my rare earth samples from diddi yesterday, and already I've been conducting experiments with the samarium shards I have.
The first test I did last night was a burn attempt, as I've seen numerous videos of samarium burning red. I attempted to ignite the shard on a gas
stove, but nothing happened after the shard turned red-hot.
Second test involved potassium nitrate and samarium to get the coveted red flame. I used a piece of wood as the ignition area, put a few pellets of
potassium nitrate on the wood, and placed the samarium on its deathbed. After melting the potassium nitrate with one of those wind resistant torches,
a big flash occurred and sparks were thrown.
Other than one small piece at the end, the samarium remained mostly intact, and the potassium nitrate preferred to oxidize the wood instead. I assume
the flash was due to the small piece burning.
Third test involved dissolving the samarium in citric acid solution. The samarium dissolved relatively slowly (about the speed of zinc in the same
solution even though the metal is as reactive as magnesium), the solution turned yellow, and a black precipitate settled on the bottom.
Anyone have any ideas on how to get that coveted red flame out of samarium? I need to try sanding down the sample slightly to expose the metal surface
- that works well with magnesium pieces.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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deltaH
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Samarium salt instead of the metal? You can mix a small amount of the salt with sugar, KNO3 and sulfur in a volume ratio of 2:4:1. I did this with a
little calcium sulfate and got a spectacular red flame (from calcium). Grind down that mixture for maximum effect. I suppose you can also add some of
your solution from the citric acid dissolution on the KNO3 and dry it, then grind it with the other ingredients.
[Edited on 14-2-2015 by deltaH]
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blogfast25
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My own experience with Sm metal was also bizarre. None of the prescribed behaviour in HCl for instance. I did get it to react with
I<sub>2</sub> though...
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The Volatile Chemist
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How many different samples did you get?
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nezza
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I have previously posted a video of samarium dissolving in dilute hydrochloric acid (transient deep red colour) and have tried igniting a shard of the
metal. It is very difficult to ignite and burns almost white when it does catch.
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Brain&Force
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Quote: Originally posted by deltaH  | Samarium salt instead of the metal? You can mix a small amount of the salt with sugar, KNO3 and sulfur in a volume ratio of 2:4:1. I did this with a
little calcium sulfate and got a spectacular red flame (from calcium). Grind down that mixture for maximum effect. I suppose you can also add some of
your solution from the citric acid dissolution on the KNO3 and dry it, then grind it with the other ingredients.
[Edited on 14-2-2015 by deltaH] |
From what I've seen the metal itself burns bright red. I don't know if this is an artifact of the camera used to record the combustion or if it's
actually bright red.
| Quote: Originally posted by nezza | | I have previously posted a video of samarium dissolving in dilute hydrochloric acid (transient deep red colour) and have tried igniting a shard of the
metal. It is very difficult to ignite and burns almost white when it does catch. |
What was your ignition method? I tried a gas stove and one of those wind-resistant lighters, as well as a wood flame (grill). I've also tried placing
ytterbium in molten potassium nitrate but no flame occurs, instead the ytterbium appears to react without burning. I couldn't get holmium to ignite
either.
Lanthanum powder burns really easily though. Terbium sparks when ground, but terbium powder doesn't ignite easily, either.
I have lanthanum (but I don't know the purity), samarium, gadolinium, dysprosium, holmium, and ytterbium. Also I have some leftover terbium metal and
salts from my previous work.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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The Volatile Chemist
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Sounds like fun. I'll be expecting pictures...
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gdflp
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force |
I have lanthanum (but I don't know the purity), samarium, gadolinium, dysprosium, holmium, and ytterbium. Also I have some leftover terbium metal and
salts from my previous work. |
I've got some neodymium, praseodymium, and cerium salts in decent quantities, as well as pure lanthanum(III) oxide. If you're interested in any
properties of these element's compounds, let me know and I could try the experiment and post pictures and such.
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diddi
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how did you make the Nd III salts? I tried Nd/citric acid and also vinegar with odd results
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gdflp
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I was able to buy neodymium(III) oxide at a yard sale, this dissolves readily in ammonium chloride to yield neodymium(III) chloride. I haven't tried
to synthesize the nitrate yet, but I should considering I just made a decent quantity of nitric acid.
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MrHomeScientist
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At a yard sale! That must be one fun neighborhood...
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nezza
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Hi. I used a blowlamp to ignite the samarium. I have reposted the video of samarium in HCl along with the burning video.
Attachment: Samarium burning.mp4 (5.3MB)
This file has been downloaded 606 times
Attachment: Samarium in HCl.mp4 (2.7MB)
This file has been downloaded 602 times
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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Brain&Force
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nezza, that's beautiful! Is it really reddish like that or is it more white?
Ytterbium does the same thing, but it burns greenish, so I will get around to trying some.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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nezza
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Brain&Force - The colours are accurate as I remember. It burns white hot with a pinkish tint. FYI both videos are in slow motion.
[Edited on 18-2-2015 by nezza]
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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The Volatile Chemist
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| Quote: Originally posted by gdflp | | I was able to buy neodymium(III) oxide at a yard sale, this dissolves readily in ammonium chloride to yield neodymium(III) chloride. I haven't tried
to synthesize the nitrate yet, but I should considering I just made a decent quantity of nitric acid. |
There's only one thing I can say: "'Murica!" - Because that's so great! What country do you live in, if you don't mind divulging...
I've bought a few electronics related things from yard sales, but nothing as great as that
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gdflp
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I'm in the US, in New York. I think it was just luck to be honest, it was an older chemist who was moving into assisted living and couldn't bring his
lab with him. I also got some other interesting chems like 125ml of CCl4, 250ml of benzyl alcohol, 250ml of bromobenzene, 125ml of methyl
benzoate, some salicylamide, Michler's Ketone, and of course the rare earth's previously mentioned. Apparently he had a whole bunch of glassware too,
but it was all sold before I got there.
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Brain&Force
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Dissolving samarium with citric acid resulted in this:
<a href="http://imgur.com/YisvXS6"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/YisvXS6.jpg" title="yup, that's my house" width=800 /></a>
I'm not sure where the turbidity is coming from, but holmium and ytterbium do not exhibit this – they simply dissolve cleanly. I suspect this is
either to some oxidation product (the Sm is oxidized but the Ho and Yb are pretty clean) or due to some difference between HREEs and LREEs. Are you
seeing this as well diddi?
If it's the latter case we just might have a separation method on our hands!
[Edited on 19.2.2015 by Brain&Force]
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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diddi
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now I have been playing with Nd. the Nd dissolved slowly in citrate to produce a sludge and pale solution, but after leaving for several days, I have
not only had a small amount of evaporation, but a huge (almost quantitative amount) of crystals have appeared and almost all the sludge has gone.
the Nd in vinegar has also continued to react slowly, but there is an amount of orange (rust colour) ppt that has still not dissolved. after
evaporation masses of pale purple crystals appeared.
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The Volatile Chemist
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Great pictures everyone!
| Quote: Originally posted by gdflp | | I'm in the US, in New York. I think it was just luck to be honest, it was an older chemist who was moving into assisted living and couldn't bring his
lab with him. I also got some other interesting chems like 125ml of CCl4, 250ml of benzyl alcohol, 250ml of bromobenzene, 125ml of methyl
benzoate, some salicylamide, Michler's Ketone, and of course the rare earth's previously mentioned. Apparently he had a whole bunch of glassware too,
but it was all sold before I got there. |
That's cool! I'll have to go to more yard sales this summer! I *wonder* where the glassware went... 
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Brain&Force
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I bought a Bernzomatic propane blowtorch with a webbed flame, and decided to try two things with samarium.
First, I tried lighting a piece of samarium metal with the torch by holding it in the flame for about 30 seconds with vise grips. No ignition occured
- the metal got yellow-hot and oxidized, though.
Then I decided to try to alloy it with some zinc from a melted penny in a stainless steel lid. It appears this was only slightly successful. The
samarium piece broke into two, and it appears some of the small pieces that broke off may have dissolved in the zinc - though I cannot confirm this.
I also tried lighting a piece of ytterbium in the stainless steel lid. The piece did not melt or burn, but it weakly welded to the lid and of course
oxidized.
I know, nezza, you successfully lit a piece of samarium, how did you set it up? I want to try this as a demonstration.
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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The Volatile Chemist
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Interesting. How much did the torch cost? I'm looking into getting one for the hotter sort of test-tube chemistry.
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careysub
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force | I bought a Bernzomatic propane blowtorch with a webbed flame, and decided to try two things with samarium.
First, I tried lighting a piece of samarium metal with the torch by holding it in the flame for about 30 seconds with vise grips. No ignition occured
- the metal got yellow-hot and oxidized, though. |
It would be interesting to make a small carbon arc to set stuff alight:
http://www.instructables.com/id/Carbon-Arc-Lights/?ALLSTEPS
If that doesn't work, nothing will.
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brain&Force | I bought a Bernzomatic propane blowtorch with a webbed flame, and decided to try two things with samarium.
First, I tried lighting a piece of samarium metal with the torch by holding it in the flame for about 30 seconds with vise grips. No ignition occured
- the metal got yellow-hot and oxidized, though.
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Have you tried reacting it with iodine? That worked well for me in a test tube with argon and mild Bunsen heat.
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nezza
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One way to get some sort of burn from Samarium is to put a piece on a grinding wheel. Like many lanthanides it sparks like mad and the sparks do have
a pink colour. I have attached a slow motion video of this.
Attachment: Samarium sparks.mp4 (2.3MB)
This file has been downloaded 465 times
Attachment: Burning Samarium.mp4 (5.3MB)
This file has been downloaded 492 times
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
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Brain&Force
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Should have checked this thread earlier.
It was somewhere around $25 IIRC, just a regular propane torch. I'd like to try a more powerful torch, though.
| Quote: Originally posted by careysub |
Unfortunately, I'm in the US and iodine isn't going to be easy, though I have been curious about attempting to react it with chlorine or bromine.
| Quote: Originally posted by nezza | | One way to get some sort of burn from Samarium is to put a piece on a grinding wheel. Like many lanthanides it sparks like mad and the sparks do have
a pink colour. I have attached a slow motion video of this. |
My preferred method of igniting samarium and ytterbium is to powder the metal with a file and dropping it into the kitchen stove/grill. It also works
well as flash powder with PTFE.
What size was the piece of Sm you ignited with the torch, and what kind of torch did you use?
Ok, now on to two new things with samarium.
When I visited zts16 I had the chance to dissolve samarium in concentrated HCl. I tried it and did observe the dark red color of samarium(II)
surrounding the metal on initial addition of samarium pieces. But on further addition of samarium pieces the color would no longer surround the
dissolving metal. I'm thinking samarium(II) needs extremely acidic conditions to be at least somewhat stable. It never occurred to me to try the same
reaction with concentrated sulfuric acid, so I'm stuck with these results only.
Second, I tried making samarium salicylate by dissolving samarium in a solution of salicylic acid. The dissolution rate of samarium started off
extremely slow...but then it stopped. I left it for two weeks with no change or bubbles being generated. I haven't tried samarium in water, but I have
tried holmium in tap water and that corroded in less than a week. It might be of note that the samarium is black and dirty, but on the other hand, the
holmium I tested turned black and dirty under tap water. |
At the end of the day, simulating atoms doesn't beat working with the real things...
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