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bquirky
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WOW ive got to ask.. ive allways wanted to know..
HOW do you buy and TAKE DELIVERY of metals traded on international markets like that.
Ive only ever seen futures and warrents and other BS crap.. how do you buy a few ounces of palladium at or near market price and take physical
delivery ?? do you just get it at your local mint like gold or is it some off market thing or what ? 
Thanks
regards
Bryden
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bbartlog
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When I bought gold a while back (physically delivered) it was from bullion direct, www.bulliondirect.com. They sell gold, silver, platinum and palladium at pretty near to spot prices (e.g. $713 for a one ounce palladium ingot).
That's only $28 above the spot price of $685, which is about as good as you are likely to get unless you spend a lot of time haunting ebay or
otherwise scoping out rare opportunities.
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Jor
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Nevertheless, palladium is seriously expensive now.
I can almost punch myself, as I seriously considered investing 1000-2000 EUR in palladium back in 2008, but I didn't have a lot of money so I didn't
like the risk. that would have been a very good idea considering what it's worth now. I think it will keep rising.
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watson.fawkes
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Quote: Originally posted by Jor  | | that would have been a very good idea considering what it's worth now. I think it will keep rising. |
For the
next few months, at least. Large users of the metal will switch out to something more economical as soon as they can research an alternative and
retool for it. Don't count on a permanent spike. Where palladium was being used for platinum, some may be able to go back to platinum, for example.
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S.C. Wack
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Rereading my post and googling would work.
Minimum orders to Oz from here. Surely there is metal trading on the continent.
Eh I mentioned a dealer with current lower price over spot than BD, but BD wins with its cheap shipping. Buying now is NOTHING like TRYING to buy when
the market is low and everyone is trying to buy physical product and not the nice coins or kilo bars either. Prices get jacked up when it's time to
jack up prices and I remember BD did not really have Pd when the market was at the lowest. There were lots of >1kg Russian state refinery ingots in
non-rounded weights available elsewhere and not a whole lot else at the time. Now those you could get a good deal on then.
BTW Rh powder is available now from yet another site mentioned in my last post, in 1, 5, and 10 oz. lots...they've been selling the platinumware etc.
on the site for a long time, but the Rh is new. Note platinum and palladium are very high now, but look at rhodium...hmmm...who will buy your rhodium
if it goes back up, especially if you unsealed it? I think that $760 price is the reason why physical Rh is available now.
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madscientist
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My god, I wish I'd been aware of that massive price crash. At $760 I would've bought some for sure!
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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White Yeti
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Gold is a little bit like diamonds and oil; prices are greatly influenced by speculation. To a chemist, platinum group metals are more valuable
because of their catalytic properties. Gold is near useless in the lab.
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ibro
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All I know that everybody is stockpiling, and price is going up each day...
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phlogiston
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Everybody is stockpiling, and THEREFORE the price is going up each day.
| Quote: |
If the economic systems of the world collapsed and barter and service were the standards for trade, gold would end up in the trash pile.
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There was a time when barter and service WERE the standards for trade, and gold was highly valued then. In fact, it pretty much has ever been for as
long as humans have been around. So I doubt it, in fact I think we would return to using something touchable and real like gold to trade for
services/goods.
-----
"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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Amy Winehouse
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I was just thinking about this today. Gold is valuable for a similar reason that bitcoins (electronically fabricated currency) are valuable. Just like
in massive online RPGs, there are companies that sell game currency for USD. The theory is, if enough people in a community agree that something has
value, voila! it has value. So the birth of electronic currency. If you ask me, electronic currency is especially erosion resistant and compact, even
more so than gold  aside from having a propensity to be stolen (which, hey gold
isn't exactly exempt from).
Electronic currency is also conductive like gold. ba doo chhhhhh
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franklyn
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" You folks who think that Bitcon can somehow "replace" national currencies
without the consent of the nations involved have rocks in your head."
- Karl Denninger
The ultimate problem for Bitcoin ( and other similar crypto-currencies ) is that
they are not self validating. This leaves their exchange subject to third party
validation and interference from governmental authorities. Did you ' get that '
the holy grail and chalice of electronic money is , S E L F . V A L I D A T I O N
it must be as good as gold , in a digital form for peer to peer transaction
without intermediaries.
Department of Homeland Security seized US " bank accounts " belonging to
Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange. Got that ! , not the FBI or Treasury Department ,
but the Department of Homeland Security , specifically U.S. Immigration and
Customs Enforcement. Homeland Security simply created accounts with Dwolla
and Mt. Gox, then bought Bitcoins , and changed them back into Dollars. That
money was traced to see that it passed through a Wells Fargo account , which
was created by a single authorized signer: Mark Karpeles , the president and
CEO of Mt. Gox. The problem is that Mt. Gox had specifically declared that they
are not a firm involved in money services , dealing in such without a license is
a crime. The purpose of licensing is to obstruct money laundering and tax
evasion by enabling records of transactions to be available for scrutiny.
• Copy of warrant _
http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Mt-Gox...
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=220898
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/9ecefa7c-bda6-11e2-890a-00144feab7de.html...
www.extremetech.com/extreme/155933-homeland-security-seizes-...
related post _
www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=17281&pag...
In another matter _
Tax evasion is a criminal matter if it can be shown that it has in fact taken place,
just as any other criminal charge. A criminal charge of 'attempted ' tax evasion
means that no actual evasion need have occurred , merely the possibility that it
could have if you were inclined to avail yourself of the opportunity to do so.
By this logic you may be subject to arrest for 'attempted ' shoplifting merely by
being present in a store , since the opportunity existed for you at any time to
have pilfered. Any one thinking any ' bad ' thoughts better get them out of your
head now and put on your tinfoil hat.
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AJKOER
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The value of a metal, in my opinion, is better represented by its uses and the cost of corresponding substitutes for each use. This constitutes the
support price for the metal. The market price in excess of the support price should be a matter of concern.
Be aware that actually buying gold entails a negative carry. No interest is paid on the money spent. There is an associated cost for storage,
insurance and for possible transport.
One would think a good reason for gold's value is its actual scarity of the metal per the amount available in the earth's crust, but this does not
address its value per available substitutes.
For example, as a currency, it offers the value of corrosive resistance, non-toxic, good density to distinguish it from other metals, and softness
again for uniqueness and ability to easily make coins. Obvious substitute is paper money, which is very cheap. Electronic money (debit cards,...),
another substitute, may have an advantage in ease of trade and theft protection in certain cases (insured bank accounts and the like). Bottom line,
not much actual price support here.
As jewelry, the same reasons, corrosive resistance, non-toxic... However, substitutes are available that have some of these features at a much lower
price, so not much support for the price here either.
In electronics, good electrical and heat resistance properties, but copper is just a slightly less good substitute, but much much cheaper. Little
price support here again.
Perhaps, you just want to invest in a precious metal as an inflation hedge. Then, you should most likely choose a less risky metal like silver,
platinum, or rare earth metals that have a higher significant part of its market price supported by actual commercial demand because of lack of
substitutes and limited availability.
What would its really cost be to you to replace gold for a particular purpose? And just becomes it has more value to some than others, that does not
set its value at the higher price in a market place. Are you starting to get the picture on exactly how (and why) investing in gold is speculative?
[Edited on 20-5-2013 by AJKOER]
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Dr.Bob
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The key to the theoretical cost of an item is the capital and the labor needed to produce it. So while gold prices are subject to many outside
influences, the cost of copper, silver and gold are all related to their abundance, demand, and their cost of recovery. Since copper mining produces
silver as a major by-product, and copper use has been high for many years, that produced a lot of silver by product, thus lowering the price. On top
of that, silver is not being used in the photographic world in any real amount now, thus the price is low compared to gold.
However, most major veins of gold have been already mined, and the remaining ones require a substantial amount of ore to be processed to obtain much
gold. Some gold comes from copper/silver mining, but not enough to meet demand, so that is one reason gold is higher than silver. Modern
instrumentation can find gold deposits (or at least their signatures) in rock via aerial survey, so there is little likelihood of vast gold deposits
that remain unknown to modern industry. So that is another reason that gold is precious, is that we "know" that there is a limited supply, although
that is always open to hidden finds (mostly in countries like Russia than have not allowed public surveying and don't publish government data.) So
if it takes a lot of work to get the gold out of the ground and pure, then it will be worth a lot of money.
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S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
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Demand can be pretty speculative. The rare metals market of the past 6 years has been a ride.
I'm wondering where the bottom is for the gold slide of late. A lot of the advice from the experts to the US public has been BS since always, but the
market is really not so opaque...there was some ridicule of the gold rush, but it was the smart money, big money looking for a vehicle. Now it's
getting off the bus and taking profits.
Current investment options are not great. I imagine a few to all financial advisers are saying sell all your gold today. Gold would have given you
double money (of um perhaps obscure existence to um outsiders) net in 3 years if sold not long into this slide. Or...you could have taken my advice
from my first post above (bought from APMEX the random weight RU Pd bars at $200/oz after mortgaging your house), got in at $13k delivered, and resold
at $40-50k. In two years. Similar deal '97-00. Volatile.
Remember kids, have money at the right time: then
...and the Pd to bitcoin...oh oh oh oh oh oh
I'm not saying you should rob banks for the cash if such a need arises, but it probably would have been sound financial advice even for Amish, who
would be doing lines of coke right now, chasing the thrill of capitalism...and bank robbery
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Eddygp
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Gold's real value is based on speculation and that bright orange tinge it has, as well as being very ductile and malleable. Useless for a chemist
comparing it to copper, platinum, palladium, silver, etc...
there may be bugs in gfind
[ˌɛdidʒiˈpiː] IPA pronunciation for my Username |
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S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
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Rh is less than Pt now, both are about 1k...thought it's worth mentioning that Pt is now lower than it's been in several years. Pd is the same as when
I posted the Pd chart. Rh is better than half price from the Rh chart and I feel bad about that, but you didn't buy any did you...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-19/platinum-t...
Shortages of platinum and palladium will contract from record levels as South African supplies rebound after last year’s mines strike and
investors sell, according to Johnson Matthey Plc.
Palladium is set to record the smallest shortfall in four years in 2015, while platinum will come the closest to a balanced market in three years as
recovering supplies offset growing demand from car-makers, data from the company showed.
Both metals have been in deficit since 2012 amid supply disruptions and as stricter legislation against vehicle emissions strengthened demand for the
materials, which are used as catalysts in pollution-control devices.
“Demand from the auto sector is anticipated to rise to a new record high in 2015,” Rupen Raithatha, research manager at Johnson Matthey, said
Monday by e-mail, referring to palladium. That will be outweighed by factors including the recovery of South African supply and “significant
liquidation” by investors in exchange-traded products.
Palladium’s deficit will contract to 100,000 ounces in 2015, down from 1.8 million ounces in 2014, according to Johnson Matthey’s platinum group
metals report on Tuesday. South African mine supply is seen recovering 17 percent to 2.48 million ounces, the highest since 2011, following the
five-month mine strike that ended in June. South Africa is the largest platinum producer and second-biggest for palladium.
For platinum, the shortage this year is estimated at 285,000 ounces, with South African supply rebounding 19 percent to 4.24 million ounces. The
country will account for 73 percent of global supply.
Platinum demand is forecast to be little changed at about 8.31 million ounces, as a 10 percent increase in auto-catalyst usage to 3.7 million ounces
is offset by investors selling 88,000 ounces compared with purchases of 272,000 ounces last year. Demand for jewelry will fall 1.3 percent, while
increasing 2.9 percent for industrial uses.
Palladium demand will drop 12 percent from 2014 to 9.4 million ounces, with investors seen selling 400,000 ounces after buying 932,000 ounces last
year. Jewelry usage may fall 34,000 ounces to 245,000 ounces, while industrial demand slips 2.4 percent to about 2.1 million ounces.
Platinum, favored in diesel engines commonly used in Europe, retreated 3.4 percent this year to $1,166.73 an ounce in London on Tuesday, according to
Bloomberg generic pricing. Palladium, mainly used in gasoline engines that are more popular in the U.S. and China, slipped 1.6 percent this year to
$785.25 an ounce.
Holdings in platinum-backed ETPs have fallen 7.5 percent from a record set in July to 82.9 metric tons, data compiled by Bloomberg show. Investors own
91.9 tons of palladium through ETPs, 4.2 percent below the all-time high set in August.
Supply from re-using jewelry and auto-catalytic converters will increase for both metals, with platinum recycling rising 6.8 percent to 2.21 million
ounces and palladium by 4.5 percent to 2.87 million ounces, according to Johnson Matthey, which makes about a third of the world’s catalytic
converters.
Rhodium is forecast to see a 62,000-ounce surplus, after registering shortages in 2013 and 2014. Supply will rise 18 percent to 726,000 ounces, while
demand is seen little changed at 997,000 ounces. Recycling of the metal, mainly used in catalytic converters and also in the chemical and glass
industries, will account for 333,000 ounces.
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zed
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The price of Platinum is down, down, down. It is actually less than Gold now. Less that 1000 US per ounce. Economy must be recovering.
Platinum has spent a lot of time in the $1600 to $1800 range, over the last few years. As of today.....$995 per ounce.
Fear seems to drive metal prices up. It is considered a hedge of sorts. If the whole world go "to hell in a handbasket"......Gold will still retain
some value.
So, Platinum? How low can it go?
[Edited on 19-7-2015 by zed]
[Edited on 19-7-2015 by zed]
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Morgan
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There was a big spike in nickel briefly several years ago.
http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/nickel/all/
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S.C. Wack
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| Quote: Originally posted by bbartlog | | When I bought gold a while back (physically delivered) it was from bullion direct, www.bulliondirect.com. They sell gold, silver, platinum and palladium at pretty near to spot prices (e.g. $713 for a one ounce palladium ingot).
That's only $28 above the spot price of $685, which is about as good as you are likely to get unless you spend a lot of time haunting ebay or
otherwise scoping out rare opportunities. |
It turns out that they were able to do this by never buying metal that was supposed to be bought and stored for instead of delivered to the customers
who chose that option; i.e. fraud. Tulving has also declared bankruptcy. apmex and jmbullion are still around, and kitco has 1 oz. Rh bars for $845.
I bring this up because Pd is back under $500 and Pt is nearing the lowest point since I signed up here. No one knows where the bottom is for Pt or if
prices will rise from today, but a weak China can only be good news. Also good is speculation won't keep the price as artificially high, because new
investors who bought Pt and Pd physical or otherwise in the past year now have a bad taste in their mouth, and might not be quick to do it again.
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diddi
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can I get some links for Rh bullion sales plz?
kitco looks best...?
[Edited on 21-1-2016 by diddi]
Beginning construction of periodic table display
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S.C. Wack
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6 years later I'm seeing $3099, 3163, 3171, 3178, and 3226 /troy oz, depending on who is asked...all spot not bid, all at today's closing...not sure
how that works...*rubs palms together*
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Rainwater
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Lots of post read. I was disappointed by the direction everyone took.
So, from an electrical detail, at room temperature, there is no better conductor I know of; its corrosion resistance makes it great for connections
exposed to the elements. Data connections are a good example.
Gold doesn't react with oxygen and is resistant to ozone at low temperatures, most other acids and bases. If it does react with something, it is
easily reduced back to elemental form. Basically, you need a strong oxidizer or a halogen to get it to chemically react.
This makes it great for some electrolysis solutions. (NaOH)
And worse for others (NaCl)
"You can't do that" - challenge accepted
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Herr Haber
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Twelve years later and that price is now for a gram...
X30 in 12 years and nobody is selling.
The only form I found Rh is in plating solutions for jewelers. I guess that could be a source too.
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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Crazy_Chemist
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I bought Rhodium from Israel, for about €25 for a 10 mm x 1 mm very thin strip to my element collection recently. Se daily prices here:
https://www.dailymetalprice.com/
Amateur chemist, just for fun!
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Dr.Bob
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I may be one of the few chemists to ever use a gold catalyst for real chemistry. It was not a great catalyst or a very useful reaction, but I have
actually done chemistry one and with gold, even chiral catalysts. But my advisor was upset that it cost so much (even though it was his idea to try
it), so not a great area of chemistry.
If we can ever find ways to extract elements from the ocean effciently, we will be in great shape, as has a huge amount of gold, uranium, and many
other elements in the ocean, so it would be a great source. They are already looking at that for lithium and some other limited source metals.
Already used for salt/chlorine, Mg, Ca, Iodine, Bromine (Dead Sea), Lithium (Salton Sea), and some others.
The Ukraine situation may alter the prices of Pt and Pd, as well as the use of electric cars, which don't need catalytic but do require many other
metals.
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