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Savior
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I don't need high-energy neutrons, but many neutrons, the more the better. Something like 1 kg of neutrons by mass.
Is there any cheaper way than using Deuterium?
I mean using heavy water for such large quantity of neutrons...?!?
What about proton electron fusion? Whay's there so little information on internet about it? I've read that it can be performed with very low voltage
and pressure only slightly lower than atmospheric, and they said that if you do that you will produce some weird new elements and even new subatomic
particles! Is that joke? They say that all those neutrons, protons, and all elements produced will be different from normal ones! The reason is, as
they say, the different spins and some angles....
Also, isn't beam-beam collision better than beam-target?
[Edited on 12-2-2015 by Savior]
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careysub
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| Quote: | I don't need high-energy neutrons, but many neutrons, the more the better. Something like 1 kg of neutrons by mass.
Is there any cheaper way than using Deuterium?
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By far the most economical source of neutrons by the kilogram is the fission reactor. Just need 30 tonnes of natural uranium metal, and a few hundred
of graphite or 3 tonnes of U and 10 tonnes of heavy water.
| Quote: |
What about proton electron fusion? Whay's there so little information on internet about it?
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This is the regulating step in stars, that keep them burning for billions of years instead of blowing up instantly. That is to say, it is extremely
slow.
How slow? In the center of the sun, with its extreme pressures and temperatures, it proceeds at such a rate similar to the heating of a compost heap,
your own metabolism far outstrips it.
How slow? So slow that it has never been experimentally observed on Earth.
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I've read that it can be performed with very low voltage and pressure only slightly lower than atmospheric, and they said that if you do that you will
produce some weird new elements and even new subatomic particles! Is that joke? |
Maybe.
| Quote: | | Also, isn't beam-beam collision better than beam-target? |
No. With a target you have an enormously higher chance of hitting something. If you dueling with someone, and you fire at the same time, the bullets
are far more likely to hit you, and your opponent, than collide in mid-air.
[Edited on 12-2-2015 by careysub]
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Savior
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That's what I was searching for! Thanks, going for it!
Almost forgot for old-fasioned fission...
Also, can you explain why is pe fusion so slow? I've read on Wikipedia that it can be made fast if higher voltage is used (100 MV to 1 GeV instead of
sun core's conditions of 1 MeV to 100 MeV). Is it correct?
Also, what is energy (voltage) needed to initiate fission using neutron? Less or more than for deuterium fusion?
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Dr Zeibenstein
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Americium from ionizing smoke detector and a sheet of Beryllium.
Americium Beryllium neutron source
Cheapest I could think of?
[Edited on 12-2-2015 by Dr Zeibenstein]
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careysub
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Quote: Originally posted by Savior  | That's what I was searching for! Thanks, going for it!
Almost forgot for old-fasioned fission...
Also, can you explain why is pe fusion so slow? |
Technically it is p-p fusion (I forgot to point this out). This relies on the weak force to turn a proton into a neutron (by capturing an electron),
which is why it is slow. Most nuclear reactions (fusion and fission) rely on the strong force and have enormously higher reaction cross sections.
| Quote: | | I've read on Wikipedia that it can be made fast if higher voltage is used (100 MV to 1 GeV instead of sun core's conditions of 1 MeV to 100 MeV). Is
it correct? |
No. The average kinetic energy in the Sun's core is only 1.3 keV for starters.
| Quote: | | Also, what is energy (voltage) needed to initiate fission using neutron? Less or more than for deuterium fusion? |
Zero energy. There is no energy barrier to overcome. Fission can be performed with ultra-cold neutrons that are travelling about as fast as you can
walk.
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neptunium
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electron capture happens in some decay process i dont know how it could be triggered efficiently other than creating what nature does in a neutron
stars. the result of the collapse beyond the Chandrasekhar limit. which is hard to do on earth to put it mildly.
every fissile nucleus has a different cross section most U235 reactor work with thermal neutron (meaning moving at thermal speed, not accelerated by
high voltage difference) requiring a moderator to slow down the initial neutron. that only apply at the very begining of the reactor's life when the
fuel is brand new.
As to the speculative high preassure low voltage electron capture creating funny spins and element and/or particles, i am a lot more reserved than
Careysub and would call it a joke ... indeed
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Savior
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium |
As to the speculative high preassure low voltage electron capture creating funny spins and element and/or particles, i am a lot more reserved than
Careysub and would call it a joke ... indeed
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They called them quasi neutrons, quasi elements, quasi particles...but I can't find that PDF (which I read a month ago) document on Google! And I
believe electron and proton can collide in normal fusor to generate a neutron, but I'm interested in cost! Is it cheaper than making heavy water and
fusing deuterium?
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Sulaiman
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I believe that if you live in the USA the deliberate generation of neutrons is illegal and most other countries take a dim view.
I think that satellite detection of neutrons is used to detect nuclear threats
so expect visitors !
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neptunium
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oh come on! no body will knock on your door if you run a fusor in your basement for 3 and a half minute every sunday afternoon now!
besides, once you get the equipment, pumps and chamber o rings high voltage etc... you still have to get the deuterium and this is now classified as a
nuclear device wich makes it very hard to obtain nowadays..
Only a few home scientist have to time and financial ressources to make it happen as far as i know...
not the typical week end project!
[Edited on 14-2-2015 by neptunium]
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Etaoin Shrdlu
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For what do you need a kilogram of neutrons? I'm dying to know.
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Texium
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Also would you expect them to just sit around like a very generic, neutral, gray block of neutrality?
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macckone
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Fusor are not too difficult to make and deuterium oxide is available online, or make it yourself by boiling thousands of gallons of water.
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Sulaiman
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| Quote: Originally posted by neptunium | oh come on! no body will knock on your door if you run a fusor in your basement for 3 and a half minute every sunday afternoon now!
[Edited on 14-2-2015 by neptunium] |
I suspect that generating 1 kg of neutrons will not go un-noticed.
P.S. I'm 'Harmlees', you're an 'international hazard' 
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Bert
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If you generated a kg of free neutrons in a home lab setting at one time, I suspect satellite observation would not be your most pressing concern.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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neptunium
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1 kg of free neutron flying out of a concentrated area????? screw the satellite dude! you wont live long enough to answer homeland security knocking
at your door! your house would have to be burried in concrete!
what do you need that much for i dont get it?
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BromicAcid
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neutrons + mercury = profit?
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neptunium
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ha! the oldest trick! good luck!
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Savior
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To make Gold, of course, but if needed, a nuclear bomb, why not?
If I feel threat coming from Russia, should I rely on my country to protect me? Of course not! We're very close to Russia. They said they're gonna
destroy whole world if they get angry... (see Google news)
Here's calculation, if anybody's interested. These are just approximations, correct me if I'm wrong.
1 kg Deuterium = 0.5 kg neutrons
0.5 kg neutrons = 250 g usable neutrons from fusion in fusor (because probability for getting free neutron is ~50%)
250 g neutrons = 250 g Gold
(because even if I include protons from element like Iron from which I will start neutron slow absorption, neutrons in 197-Au are >50%, and if I
consider some losses, that's just to be sure)
So, 1 kg Deuterium is 250 g Au.
In water there is 156 ppm or 0.0156% Deuterium, which is 39 ppm Au.
39 ppm Au means (gold in water):
39 g in 1 000 000 g, or
3.9 g in 100 000 g, or
0.39 g in 100 000 g, or
39 mg in 10 000 g, or
3.9 mg in 1 kg, and it means about :
3.9 mg Au in L water !!!
Big yields! Compare it to 1 ppb Au in 1 kg soil.
And I will ignore energy needs for fusion, because quantity of Gold or neutrons is small. Or even energy is not lost...
Imagine now using natural resources to boil water: wood, sun...
And total independance, not only for money, but for nuclear weapons also!
And ISIL will come to us from south, Rusia from east, USA from west! Very little time we have!
Or maybe the amount of Gold is double...because it is 156 ppm D by number of atoms, which is 312 ppm by weight!
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by Savior]
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Bert
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I think there's another member here who is working on your exact idea! You should talk to him about ALL your ideas, he's very much interested in those
topics-
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/member.php?action=viewpro...
He is so like you, it's remarkable. Right down to using the same mobile device and software!
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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gdflp
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I thought this thread sounded familiar, I've been wondering about that for a while. After his last post, it's obvious.
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Zyklon-A
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I think you'd have better luck trying to capture a neutron star.
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0.5 kg neutrons = 250 g usable neutrons from fusion in fusor (because probability for getting free neutron is ~50%)
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Why? Will it take ten minutes to transfer them?
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[...]correct me if I'm wrong.
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Get the picture?
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by Zyklon-A]
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blogfast25
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| Quote: Originally posted by Savior | I don't need high-energy neutrons, but many neutrons, the more the better. Something like 1 kg of neutrons by mass.
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And this gets taken seriously here?
I just saw a supersonic pig fly past.
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Bert
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It is wrong of me to encourage reacting to the trolls, any notice at all is just "feeding the troll". Sorry everyone.
It would also probably be wrong of me to just take every user name associated with starting such topics and use the "delete all posts" function,
followed by an IP ban. There IS a bit of baby in this bath water perhaps, somewhere?
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Fulmen
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I agree, Bert. It's not easy knowing where to draw the line. But I think there should be a strict policy against multiple users (choose one, and next
time you're out).
Throwing people out for being wrong or even stupid, that's another story. As long as they play nice they at least provide some comical relief.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
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Zyklon-A
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| Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen | I think there should be a strict policy against multiple users (choose one, and next time you're out).
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Why? Multiple troll users yes, there shouldn't even be one, but not real users.
[Edited on 19-2-2015 by Zyklon-A]
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