| Pages:
1
2 |
Justin Blaise
Hazard to Self
Posts: 82
Registered: 5-10-2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That all sounds pretty good. I would probably dilute the acid to avoid it reacting too quickly, but it is likely fine as is. Be careful not to add too
much carbonate to your acid at once or it will foam over.
Also, if ground joint glassware is available to you, you may consider adding the acid via addition funnel to a slurry of the carbonate in a 2/3 neck
flask to contain the barium-rich aerosol as much as possible. Just something to consider.
|
|
|
greenlight
National Hazard
Posts: 754
Registered: 3-11-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Energetic
|
|
Thanks, I do have ground joint glassware so I will try it with a two-neck round bottom flask and addition funnel.
|
|
|
Justin Blaise
Hazard to Self
Posts: 82
Registered: 5-10-2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Woelen has some great notes on making barium salts here;
http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/BaCl2_2H2O/i...
There will be some amount of solid that won't dissolve no matter how much acid you add, if you're using pottry grade material. I found that letting it
settle for a long time was the easiest solution, rather than trying to filter the extremely fine particles.
|
|
|
otonel
Hazard to Self
Posts: 84
Registered: 9-4-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Squall you can make barium nitrate by boiling barium carbonate with calcium nitrate like in this patent http://www.google.com/patents/US2010046
I have two question:
- if I make electrolysis of a solution of barium sulfate can obtain barium hidroxide?
-can obtain barium nitrate by electrolysis a solutions of barium sulfate and calcium nitrate?
I want to resolve that misery theoretical first because I don`t have much time to make that kind of experiments and i ask about decomposition of
barium sulphate electrolytically because thermal decomposition need high temperature and barium sulfate is available for me as radiocontrast agent
|
|
|
Metacelsus
International Hazard
Posts: 2539
Registered: 26-12-2012
Location: Boston, MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Double, double, toil and trouble
|
|
Barium sulfate is highly insoluble, so you won't be able to dissolve it for the electrolysis.
|
|
|
nezza
Hazard to Others
Posts: 324
Registered: 17-4-2011
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: phosphorescent
|
|
Barium sulphate is difficult to convert to other barium salts. It can be converted to Barium carbonate in an equilibrium by repeated boiling with
alkali carbonate, filtering, washing and reaction with acid to dissolve the barium carbonate formed.
|
|
|
Squall181
Harmless
Posts: 46
Registered: 21-2-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
It's interesting to see such an old post of mine again. I've learned a lot since those days .
Greenlight your posted procedure is how I make my barium nitrate these days too.
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by nezza  | | Barium sulphate is difficult to convert to other barium salts. It can be converted to Barium carbonate in an equilibrium by repeated boiling with
alkali carbonate, filtering, washing and reaction with acid to dissolve the barium carbonate formed. |
Or glow it with an excess carbon at red heat for a prolonged time:
BaSO4 + 2 C === > BaS + 2 CO2
|
|
|
greenlight
National Hazard
Posts: 754
Registered: 3-11-2014
Member Is Offline
Mood: Energetic
|
|
Squall, do you use 62% nitric acid as well?
Does anyone know how to purify the Barium nitrate so it can be used effectively in green colour compositions?
I read on a patent that you can wash it with ice cold (0.degrees) low concentration nitric acid solution, would this work or is there a better way?
|
|
|
Justin Blaise
Hazard to Self
Posts: 82
Registered: 5-10-2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Barium nitrate solubility in water shows decent temperature dependence, so you could try the conventional recrystallization once you let the fine
solids settle out.
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Please remember to handle carefully! Check toxicity, Barium carbonate was used as RAT POISON.
Avoid using any Sodium compounds if you want this for green flames, small traces of Sodium yellow/orange will ruin a Barium green.
Start with a very pure Barium compound, Strontium is present in most technical grade materials. Sr is quite difficult to chemically separate from Ba-
and will also ruin green flames in surprisingly mall amounts.
If cost was no object, I would choose reagent grade Barium carbonate & nitric acid.
Also consider Barium peroxide as a colorant and oxidizer-
http://www.privatedata.com/byb/pyro/pfp/tracers.html#Tracers...
[Edited on 30-12-2014 by Bert]
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
otonel
Hazard to Self
Posts: 84
Registered: 9-4-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Cheddite Cheese You have right about barium sulfate solubility, what I think was to fiind an easy way to make barium nitrate .
I find another patent about making barium sulphide from barium sulfate using lower temperature then using just carbon or charcoal US4795625
Can be replaced barium nitrate with lead nitrate or calcium nitrate in some pyrotechnic recipes?
|
|
|
blogfast25
International Hazard
Posts: 10562
Registered: 3-2-2008
Location: Neverland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Not if a bright green is what you're after.
Finely ground BaSO4 should also be reduced in a 'thermite-style' reduction with Al powder:
BaSO4 + 8/3 Al === > BaS + 4/3 Al2O3
This should burn very brightly at over 2,500 C (end temperature). The cooled, crushed mass would then be lixiviated with dilute HCl or HNO3 and
filtered, to obtain the respective barium salt and much H2S. The annealed alumina doesn't dissolve in dilute acids.
This method avoids using a furnace altogether.
[Edited on 31-12-2014 by blogfast25]
|
|
|
nezza
Hazard to Others
Posts: 324
Registered: 17-4-2011
Location: UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: phosphorescent
|
|
The best green colour flame is obtained with Barium chlorate. This is occasionally available on Ebay and gives a really deep green flame colour.
|
|
|
aga
Forum Drunkard
Posts: 7030
Registered: 25-3-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Seeing as the thread's been revived, i'll add that you can remove the colouring from drain cleaner H2SO4 by adding some 3% H2O2 and then boil until it
fumes.
Well before it fumes, the colour has gone.
When it fumes, you have a clue as to the concentration of the acid.
No distillation aparatus required.
[Edited on 1-1-2015 by aga]
|
|
|
Bert
Super Administrator
Posts: 2821
Registered: 12-3-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: " I think we are all going to die. I think that love is an illusion. We are flawed, my darling".
|
|
Oddly enough, men and women seem to differ on that perception. I recall that some blind tests of green star mixtures by a US pyrotechnic club showed
men leaned towards the Barium chlorate greens, with women trending toward preferring the Barium nitrate greens.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
|
|
|
gdflp
Super Moderator
Posts: 1320
Registered: 14-2-2014
Location: NY, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Staring at code
|
|
This is not the right thread for that question, in addition, use the edit button rather than posting again. To answer your question, while it
technically is possible, there is no reasonable way to do this. It is possible however through a metathesis reaction with barium chloride and sodium
chloride. This will leave a sodium contaminated product which will need to be purified if used for pyrotechnics.
|
|
|
The Volatile Chemist
International Hazard
Posts: 1981
Registered: 22-3-2014
Location: 'Stil' in the lab...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Copious
|
|
The best one sciplus sells is their one entitled 'essential oils' (they always have joke titles for their products), it's all-glass and usually $95,
has a coil condenser, and some other nice stuff. Haven't purchased it, though.
|
|
|
Deathunter88
National Hazard
Posts: 522
Registered: 20-2-2015
Location: Beijing, China
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Xenoid | | Quote: | Originally posted by Fleaker
@ Xenoid, would it not be easier to just dissolve BaCO3 in dilute HNO3 or am I missing something obvious? |
Yeah! Good one! Whoops!
I naturally assumed he would not have nitric acid (the holy grail), I don't either!
Whereas hydrochloric acid is fairly readily available in most hardware stores.
Also, once you have your Ba in solution as the chloride, it's in a somewhat more useful form than the carbonate. I made up a large batch of
concentrated solution, a fairly smelly procedure with pottery barium carbonate.
Regards, Xenoid
[Edited on 22-8-2007 by Xenoid] |
Opposite for me, I can get concentrated nitric acid for a few dollars a pint. But I can't for the life of me get concentrated sulphuric and
hydrochloric acid. Guess everyone has their own problems. lol
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
